<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Dear Colleagues,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div>Ach would it be easy if it would be that simple: finite automats can never think, because these operate only and exclusively on such symbols and statements made up of symbols that exist. (We do not speak of things that do not exist, last formalized by Wittgenstein.) So far the state of current thinking as of till yesterday.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Our technologic progress since the end years of the Monarchy has made possible that we extend the vocabulary and the grammar to include the ability to speak also about facts and relations that are currently not the case.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Our thoughts are based on symbols that depict something that is not the case. That what we imagine is different to that what we perceive.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Basing a world view on periodic changes, one encounters reorders among the elements, so that as a consequence the assembly is better sorted for the next task.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Reorders are based on cycles. Elements organize themselves into task groups of who will occupy whose present place in the course of the reorder. Those elements that have a next whom they will push away and a previous that had pushed the element away, during a specific reorder, such elements constitute a cycle in that specific reorder.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The push away incidents follow each other within a cycle. The linear sequence of push away incidents in cycles that run parallel is what we call time.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In any moment of "now", one of the members of the cycle is the case. The others had been and will come again. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Those members of cycles that are not the case now do not exist now.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This collection is broadly descriptive of the collection that is the case. It contains such elements which will be the case in k steps.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Life utilises the collection of implicated statements describing a non-existence. In a non-living scenario we see entropy and black holes. Life is recycling past and borrowing against upcoming instances of becoming existent.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We have to address the implications of true sentences on the collection of false sentences. Wittgenstein was not able to do so, lacking computers. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The matter is actually there. Our brain plays with the implications of what we experience. There are forms and shapes in the background, in the collection of statements that describe states of the world that are not the case.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We definitely do need a new basic approach to bring the dictionary and grammar of rational thinking up to date.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Karl</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">L</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 21 Feb 2023, 10:48 Plamen, <<a href="mailto:plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com">plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Dear Francesco et All!<div><br></div><div>Exactly! Giving yet another “Anschein” - appearance/impression/resemblance to information and intelligence does not mean that it IS what it claims to be. It is yet another “Täuschung“ - illusion/deception/bluff - that leads later to „Ent-Täuschung“ - disappointment/frustration/disillusionment: Kant‘s language tells it concisely like in formal logic. A better reference for what follows is the Holy Bible. AI cannot be made human; it is just a hollow shell. Try asking about meanings in Byron’s or Botev’s poetry, Krassimir. </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Plamen<br><br><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 21, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Francesco Rizzo <<a href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table cellpadding="0" id="m_3853936243783966980m_5317901224094188539gmail-undefined" style="width:924px;table-layout:fixed;border-spacing:0px"><tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align:top;width:924px;height:100px"><div id="m_3853936243783966980m_5317901224094188539gmail-:tg" style="border-radius:1px;box-sizing:border-box;padding:0px 0px 16px;zoom:1;border:0px;margin:0px"><div></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table>Dear Kassimir and Nikita, <div>data, news, knowledge take on a value or meaning by virtue of the information to which they give rise. So without this information process that gives or causes things, ideas and living beings, including people, to take shape , does not occur what Karl Marx e. modestly too, we call the assumption of the form of value or the value of the form. "So to say that INFORMATION can take many FORMS" is a misleading pleonasm, because what takes a certain form cannot have-be an EDUCATIONAL action that gives SHAPE in itself. In this epistemological-onto-logical context INFORMATION is the law of the laws of both biology, physics, and economics, etc. Warm greetings and best wishes to All,</div><div>Francesco<br><div><br></div><div>Cari Kassimir e Nikita, <div>dati, notizie, conoscenze assumono un valore o significato in virtù dell'informazione a cui danno luogo.</div><div>Quindi senza questo processo di informazione che dà o fa prendere forma alle cose, alle idee e agli esseri </div><div>viventi, comprese le persone, non si verifica quello che Karl Marx e. modestamente anch'io, chiamiamo </div><div>assunzione della forma del valore o del valore della forma. "Quindi dire che le INFORMAZIONI possono </div><div>assumere molte FORME" è un pleonasma ingannevole, perché ciò che assume una certa forma non può </div><div>avere-essere in se stessa un'azione FORMATIVA che dà FORMA. In questo contesto epistemo-onto-logico </div><div>l'INFORMAZIONE è la legge delle leggi sia della biologia, sia della fisica, sia dell'economia, etc.</div><div>Un saluto affettuoso e augurale a Tutti.</div><div>Francesco,</div><div><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";font-size:18px"> </span></div><div>.</div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mar 21 feb 2023 alle ore 05:51 Nikita Shklovskiy <<a href="mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nikitashk@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">Great conversation!</div><div dir="auto">I was very interested in the questions.</div><div dir="auto">And the answers... We have a nursery rhyme:</div><div dir="auto">"if you can guess</div><div dir="auto">what will the parrot tell us?</div><div dir="auto">That's what he'll say, I guess</div><div dir="auto">that hammered a parrot."</div><div dir="auto">It seems to me that "information" cannot be fully defined without defining the reader. Just as in physical problems they forget about the necessary "let's create initial conditions", so "information" does not exist without the knowledge of which language system can interpret it, extract meaning. These three concepts: "language", "text", "meaning" must be defined together.</div><div dir="auto">And then there is no problem with God - a System that owns a maximum of language systems :)))</div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Пн, 20 февр. 2023 г. в 21:25, Krassimir Markov <<a href="mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">itheaiss@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><font size="4">Dear FIS Colleagues,</font><div><font size="4">It was interesting to provide a little conversation with the OpenAi system via ChatGPT.<br>It is given below. Maybe you have some comments.<br>Friendly greetings,</font></div><div><font size="4">Krassimir</font></div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Markov: What is "information"?</span></p>
<div style="border:1pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 15pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">OpenAI: Information is a term used to
describe knowledge or data that has been collected, processed, and
communicated. It is a measure of the amount of uncertainty that has been
reduced by an event or message. Information can take many forms, including
text, images, sounds, and numbers. It is often communicated through language or
symbols, and can be stored and transmitted using a wide range of technologies,
from books to computers to the internet.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Information can be used to make decisions, solve
problems, and gain understanding of the world around us. It is a critical
resource in fields such as science, technology, business, and education. In
many cases, information is considered a valuable commodity, and individuals or
organizations may go to great lengths to acquire or protect it.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">***</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Markov: Why do we call knowledge or data
"information" if we have good terms "knowledge" and
"data"?</span></p>
<div style="border:1pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 15pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">OpenAI: While the terms
"knowledge" and "data" are related to the concept of
information, they are not exactly interchangeable. Knowledge typically refers
to the understanding or awareness that someone has gained through learning or
experience, while data refers to the raw facts and figures that are collected
and analyzed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Information, on the other hand, can be seen as a
combination of both knowledge and data. It is the result of processing and
organizing raw data into a form that is meaningful and useful. Information can
be thought of as data that has been put into context, providing insights,
answers, or solutions to questions or problems.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">The term "information" has become widely
used in modern times due to the proliferation of digital technologies and the
rapid growth of data-driven industries such as information technology and data
science. These fields rely heavily on the collection, processing, and analysis
of large amounts of data to derive insights and make decisions. In this
context, the term "information" has become a catch-all term for any
kind of data that has been processed and transformed into a useful form.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">***</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Markov: Does this mean that
"information" is a generalized term for "data" or not?</span></p>
<div style="border:1pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 15pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Yes, in many cases, the term
"information" is used as a generalized term for "data".
However, as I mentioned earlier, the term "information" typically
refers to data that has been processed and organized in a meaningful way. This
means that while all information can be considered data, not all data can be
considered information.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Data refers to raw, unprocessed facts and figures,
such as measurements, statistics, or observations. For example, a collection of
temperature readings taken over time could be considered data. However, this
data may not be very useful on its own without some context or interpretation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">When the temperature data is organized into a chart or
graph, and analyzed to identify trends or patterns, it becomes information. The
information derived from the temperature data could be used to make decisions,
such as when to turn on the heat or air conditioning, or to analyze climate
patterns over time.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">So, while "information" can be used as a
generalized term for "data", it often implies a level of
organization, context, and meaning that goes beyond raw data.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">***</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Markov: Well, why do you think that
"knowledge" is "information"?</span></p>
<div style="border:1pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 15pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">OpenAI: While "knowledge" and
"information" are related concepts, they are not exactly the same
thing. Knowledge refers to the understanding or awareness that someone has
gained through learning or experience, while information refers to data that
has been processed and organized in a meaningful way.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">However, it is true that knowledge can be seen as a
type of information. Knowledge is often derived from information, and the two
concepts are closely connected. In many cases, information is processed and
interpreted by individuals or groups to gain knowledge, insights, or
understanding of a particular topic or subject.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">For example, if someone reads a book about the history
of Ancient Rome, the information contained in the book - such as dates, names,
and events - could be seen as raw data. However, the act of reading and
interpreting the information in the book allows the reader to gain knowledge
about Ancient Rome, such as its culture, politics, and social structures.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">So, while knowledge is not exactly the same as information,
it is closely related and can be seen as a type of information that has been
processed and interpreted by individuals or groups.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">***</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">Markov: What is the relation between
concepts "information" and "God"?</span></p>
<div style="border:1pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 15pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">OPenAI: There is no inherent or established
relation between the concepts of "information" and "God".
"Information" is a term used to describe data that has been processed
and organized in a meaningful way, while "God" is a term used in
various religious and philosophical contexts to describe a supreme being or
divine force.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">While some religious or philosophical perspectives may
connect these concepts in various ways, such connections would be subjective
and not based on any inherent relationship between the two concepts. Each
concept has its own distinct meaning and context.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:15pt 0cm 5pt;line-height:normal;border:none;padding:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif""><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"">It's important to note that as an AI language model, I
am designed to provide factual and objective information based on evidence and
established knowledge, and I do not hold any personal beliefs or opinions on
religious or philosophical matters.</span></p>
</div></div><div><br></div></div>
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