Thanks to Nikita for (again) calling attention to the real process aspects of information. This means that information is a Kolmogorov operator capable of causing change in real systems (e.g., minds). This is the dimension that - still and always - the machine cannot handle.<div><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div>Joseph <br><blockquote style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left:15px;">----Original Message----<br>From : nikitashk@gmail.com<br>Date : 21/02/2023 - 08:15 (E)<br>To : 13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com<br>Cc : fis@listas.unizar.es, da@liberman.net, itheaiss@gmail.com, a.u.igamberdiev@gmail.com<br>Subject : Re: [Fis] What did the OpenAI answer ...<br><br><div>
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"data, news, knowledge take on a value or meaning by virtue of the information to which they give rise" - let's dwell on this text again: is it possible to say that "extraction of meaning" is always an "action" - a real process, for which free energy and time are necessarily spent?
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this is the main postulate of Efim Liberman in
<span style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size: 19.0px;">the paradigm of biological computation</span>
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Вт, 21 февр. 2023 г. в 08:54, Francesco Rizzo <
<a style="cursor:pointer; text-decoration:underline; color:blue" onclick="javascript:handleMailto('mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com');">13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</a>>:
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</table>Dear Kassimir and Nikita,
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data, news, knowledge take on a value or meaning by virtue of the information to which they give rise. So without this information process that gives or causes things, ideas and living beings, including people, to take shape , does not occur what Karl Marx e. modestly too, we call the assumption of the form of value or the value of the form. "So to say that INFORMATION can take many FORMS" is a misleading pleonasm, because what takes a certain form cannot have-be an EDUCATIONAL action that gives SHAPE in itself. In this epistemological-onto-logical context INFORMATION is the law of the laws of both biology, physics, and economics, etc. Warm greetings and best wishes to All,
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Francesco
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Cari Kassimir e Nikita,
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dati, notizie, conoscenze assumono un valore o significato in virtù dell'informazione a cui danno luogo.
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Quindi senza questo processo di informazione che dà o fa prendere forma alle cose, alle idee e agli esseri
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viventi, comprese le persone, non si verifica quello che Karl Marx e. modestamente anch'io, chiamiamo
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assunzione della forma del valore o del valore della forma. "Quindi dire che le INFORMAZIONI possono
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assumere molte FORME" è un pleonasma ingannevole, perché ciò che assume una certa forma non può
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avere-essere in se stessa un'azione FORMATIVA che dà FORMA. In questo contesto epistemo-onto-logico
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l'INFORMAZIONE è la legge delle leggi sia della biologia, sia della fisica, sia dell'economia, etc.
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Un saluto affettuoso e augurale a Tutti.
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Francesco,
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Il giorno mar 21 feb 2023 alle ore 05:51 Nikita Shklovskiy <
<a style="cursor:pointer; text-decoration:underline; color:blue" onclick="javascript:handleMailto('mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com');">nikitashk@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:
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Great conversation!
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I was very interested in the questions.
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And the answers... We have a nursery rhyme:
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"if you can guess
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what will the parrot tell us?
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That's what he'll say, I guess
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that hammered a parrot."
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It seems to me that "information" cannot be fully defined without defining the reader. Just as in physical problems they forget about the necessary "let's create initial conditions", so "information" does not exist without the knowledge of which language system can interpret it, extract meaning. These three concepts: "language", "text", "meaning" must be defined together.
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And then there is no problem with God - a System that owns a maximum of language systems :)))
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Пн, 20 февр. 2023 г. в 21:25, Krassimir Markov <
<a style="cursor:pointer; text-decoration:underline; color:blue" onclick="javascript:handleMailto('mailto:itheaiss@gmail.com');">itheaiss@gmail.com</a>>:
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<font size="4" style="color: rgb(0,0,0);">Dear FIS Colleagues,</font>
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<font size="4" style="color: rgb(0,0,0);">It was interesting to provide a little conversation with the OpenAi system via ChatGPT.<br>It is given below. Maybe you have some comments.<br>Friendly greetings,</font>
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<font size="4" style="color: rgb(0,0,0);">Krassimir</font>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Markov: What is "information"?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 15.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">OpenAI: Information is a term used to describe knowledge or data that has been collected, processed, and communicated. It is a measure of the amount of uncertainty that has been reduced by an event or message. Information can take many forms, including text, images, sounds, and numbers. It is often communicated through language or symbols, and can be stored and transmitted using a wide range of technologies, from books to computers to the internet.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Information can be used to make decisions, solve problems, and gain understanding of the world around us. It is a critical resource in fields such as science, technology, business, and education. In many cases, information is considered a valuable commodity, and individuals or organizations may go to great lengths to acquire or protect it.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 1.0E-4pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;border: 1.0pt none windowtext;padding: 0.0cm;">***</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Markov: Why do we call knowledge or data "information" if we have good terms "knowledge" and "data"?</span></p>
<div style="border: 1.0pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding: 0.0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 15.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">OpenAI: While the terms "knowledge" and "data" are related to the concept of information, they are not exactly interchangeable. Knowledge typically refers to the understanding or awareness that someone has gained through learning or experience, while data refers to the raw facts and figures that are collected and analyzed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Information, on the other hand, can be seen as a combination of both knowledge and data. It is the result of processing and organizing raw data into a form that is meaningful and useful. Information can be thought of as data that has been put into context, providing insights, answers, or solutions to questions or problems.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">The term "information" has become widely used in modern times due to the proliferation of digital technologies and the rapid growth of data-driven industries such as information technology and data science. These fields rely heavily on the collection, processing, and analysis of large amounts of data to derive insights and make decisions. In this context, the term "information" has become a catch-all term for any kind of data that has been processed and transformed into a useful form.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 1.0E-4pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;border: 1.0pt none windowtext;padding: 0.0cm;">***</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Markov: Does this mean that "information" is a generalized term for "data" or not?</span></p>
<div style="border: 1.0pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding: 0.0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 15.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Yes, in many cases, the term "information" is used as a generalized term for "data". However, as I mentioned earlier, the term "information" typically refers to data that has been processed and organized in a meaningful way. This means that while all information can be considered data, not all data can be considered information.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Data refers to raw, unprocessed facts and figures, such as measurements, statistics, or observations. For example, a collection of temperature readings taken over time could be considered data. However, this data may not be very useful on its own without some context or interpretation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">When the temperature data is organized into a chart or graph, and analyzed to identify trends or patterns, it becomes information. The information derived from the temperature data could be used to make decisions, such as when to turn on the heat or air conditioning, or to analyze climate patterns over time.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">So, while "information" can be used as a generalized term for "data", it often implies a level of organization, context, and meaning that goes beyond raw data.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 1.0E-4pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;border: 1.0pt none windowtext;padding: 0.0cm;">***</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Markov: Well, why do you think that "knowledge" is "information"?</span></p>
<div style="border: 1.0pt solid rgb(217,217,227);padding: 0.0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 15.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">OpenAI: While "knowledge" and "information" are related concepts, they are not exactly the same thing. Knowledge refers to the understanding or awareness that someone has gained through learning or experience, while information refers to data that has been processed and organized in a meaningful way.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">However, it is true that knowledge can be seen as a type of information. Knowledge is often derived from information, and the two concepts are closely connected. In many cases, information is processed and interpreted by individuals or groups to gain knowledge, insights, or understanding of a particular topic or subject.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">For example, if someone reads a book about the history of Ancient Rome, the information contained in the book - such as dates, names, and events - could be seen as raw data. However, the act of reading and interpreting the information in the book allows the reader to gain knowledge about Ancient Rome, such as its culture, politics, and social structures.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">So, while knowledge is not exactly the same as information, it is closely related and can be seen as a type of information that has been processed and interpreted by individuals or groups.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 1.0E-4pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;border: 1.0pt none windowtext;padding: 0.0cm;">***</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">Markov: What is the relation between concepts "information" and "God"?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0cm 0.0cm 15.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">OPenAI: There is no inherent or established relation between the concepts of "information" and "God". "Information" is a term used to describe data that has been processed and organized in a meaningful way, while "God" is a term used in various religious and philosophical contexts to describe a supreme being or divine force.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">While some religious or philosophical perspectives may connect these concepts in various ways, such connections would be subjective and not based on any inherent relationship between the two concepts. Each concept has its own distinct meaning and context.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 15.0pt 0.0cm 5.0pt;line-height: normal;border: none;padding: 0.0cm;font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;font-family: "Segoe UI" , sans-serif;">It's important to note that as an AI language model, I am designed to provide factual and objective information based on evidence and established knowledge, and I do not hold any personal beliefs or opinions on religious or philosophical matters.</span></p>
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Никита Ефимович Шкловский-Корди
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Гематологический центр.
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Никита Ефимович Шкловский-Корди
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Гематологический центр.
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