<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Nikita,<div class="">First of all, lets be clear about definitions in the usual sense of the word. We define a term by relating it to other terms and to experiences. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In a dictionary terms are defined in relation to other terms.</div><div class="">This often leads to circularity.</div><div class="">For example, If I look up “difference” in the dictionary I find that it means “not the same”.</div><div class="">If I look up “same” in the dictionary I find that it means “not different”.</div><div class="">The dictionary shows relationships of words and relies on our experience for many of the meanings.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In mathematics we do not refer to experience in our definitions, but rather to axioms that delimit the relationships. Thus if P and Q are distinct points in Euclidean Geometry, then there is a line L uniquely </div><div class="">determined by P and Q so that P and Q are on that line L. This property is an Axiom of the Geometry. We do not specify what P and Q “are” or what a line “is”, but we have in mind certain models that do </div><div class="">satisfy these axioms. This is an efficient way to proceed for the ways of mathematical thinking. We even have certain kinds of definitions that partake of circularity. For example, I can say consider a group G generated by </div><div class="">elements a,b so that a = bab^{-1}. The equation I just wrote “defines” a in terms of itself. There is nothing wrong with this and we regard it as a constraint on the way a “behaves”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In mathematics we allow circularities as constraints and want definitions to be free of circularities. This amounts to a terminology for definitions that distinguishes them from constraints.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I say that you cannot have a mathematical definition of distinction because the best we could ever do about distinction is to indicate a relationship or a constraint such as “we take the form of distinction for the form.”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Eucid himself did not adhere to the present-day version of definitions in mathematics (after all he wrote in 500BC!). Euclid says that “A point is that which has no part.” and he says that “A straight line lies evenly upon itself.” Each of these statements has great insight, but requires much extra discussion and an understanding of the models for Geometry that are intended.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Just so the von Foerster sentence tells us that whatever an “I”, it is constrained to be a relation between itself and observing itself. </div><div class="">We appreciate this because we recognize it as a property of the “I” with which we are familiar. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">NOW, you say that you will take I as "a computing device that works according to a DNA program”. I see what you mean. I could regard myself as a computing device that works according to a DNA program.</div><div class="">I could regard myself (as Paul Erdos used to say) as a “device for turning coffee into theorems”. I have to tell you that I like to think of myself as a biocomputer on some days of the week, but not all. And on those other days I would dispute that I am any kind of computer device or formal system. I would debate that I have properties that go beyond the constraints of such formal devices. I would argue this on the basis of Godelian incompleteness,or on the basis of simple abilities to step back and survey situations that are presented to my “device”. If I am a device it is a special device that is equipped to create meta-levels and then join with these </div><div class="">meta-levels in a continuing process of comprehension. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In any case, I say that when you make statements such as “defining I” as "a computing device that works according to a DNA program” you are actually suggesting certain types of models for I and you then </div><div class="">implicitly ask us to debate whether the constraints of your models might remove them from being the only answer to the question of making such a definition. In the case of “I” , I suggest that a computational device model is interesting and fruitful but not the whole story. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It is important to distinguish definitions from models.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Very best,</div><div class="">Lou</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 29, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Nikita Shklovskiy <<a href="mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com" class="">nikitashk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto" class="">Dear Lou,</div><div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto" class="">Great! let's use fruitful starting points. Determining the difference in the treatment of Heinz von Foerster</div><div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto" class="">“I am the observed relation between myself and the observing myself” everything suits me, only I need to introduce the definition of “I”. For the Biosphere, this was done by Efim Lieberman in 1972: ""I" is a computing device that works according to the DNA program." In other words, a biological cell or several cells. In the Noosphere, I propose the definition of "I" as a "human phenomenon" i.e. "an animal of the species Homo Sapience, successfully trained in human language, i.e., a computing device capable of interfering with a program in human language." I'm not afraid of circular definitions and I understand that definitions can be complex. But it seems to me that using words in science without agreeing on their meaning is counterproductive.</div><div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto" class="">I will be happy to discuss your</div><div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto" class=""> point of view on this!</div><div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto" class="">Yours</div><div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto" class="">Nikita</div></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Вс, 29 янв. 2023 г. в 18:59, Louis Kauffman <<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" class="">loukau@gmail.com</a>>:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">Dear Nikita,</div>Distinction is a very fertile starting place as an idea or concept.<div class="">We formalize aspects of this idea but not the idea itself.</div><div class="">This is because any formal definition is a kind of distinction. </div><div class="">e.g the definition of prime number explicates the distinction between primes and composites.</div><div class="">Thus to define distinction in a formally would involve using that concept in its very definition.</div><div class="">Circular definitions such as G. Spencer-Brown’s “We take the form of distinction for the form.” or Heinz von Foerster’s</div><div class="">“I am the observed relation between myself and observing myself.”</div><div class="">are very useful for discussion, and for finding new formalisms.</div><div class="">I say that there cannot be a definition of distinction that is not circular.</div><div class="">You may have a different point of view on this matter!</div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Lou Kauffman</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 29, 2023, at 4:50 AM, Nikita Shklovskiy <<a href="mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">nikitashk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><b style="font-size:1rem;word-spacing:1px;color:rgb(49,49,49)" class="">Information “is any (distinguishable) regularity of zeros and ones”</b></div><div dir="auto" class="">great!</div></div><div dir="auto" class="">the only problem of Your Binary Universe is to give definition for DISTINGUISHABILITY. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">And to tell us who is the oner of this equipment:)</div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Вс, 29 янв. 2023 г. в 13:27, Mariusz Stanowski <<a href="mailto:stanowskimariusz@wp.pl" target="_blank" class="">stanowskimariusz@wp.pl</a>>:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div class=""><p class="">Dear All,</p><div class="">
<br class=""></div><p class="MsoNormal">A lot of the confusion about definitions of
fundamental
terms such as information is due to the transfer of terms found
at a higher
(human) level of complexity to a lower (more fundamental) level.
Hence the
variety of definitions of these concepts, which sometimes
contradict each other. At
the lower level, these terms become equivalent because there is
less
differentiation needed, e.g. in the micro world there is no
longer a sender and
a receiver, we are dealing only with interactions. Also <b class="">information,
form,
feature, structure, object, anything that can be distinguished
</b>- are all equivalent
at the basic level. <br class="">
</p><p class="MsoNormal">This also applies to physical theories that
try to get to
the roots of the universe by creating complicated theories such
as big bang,
string theory or multiverse. What the theorists fail to notice
is that
complication does not bring us closer but further away from
reaching the
foundations. To reach this level, it is essential to use the
minimum necessary
concepts with which one can describe the universe. Such a
simplest model is the
binary model, on which basically everything can be
explained/understood. An
example of such a binary model is Binary Model of Universe,
which is simply a <b class="">binary
structure</b> (only zeros and ones). On this model it is also
easy to
understand what information is: <b class="">it is any (distinguishable)
regularity of zeros and ones.</b></p><p class="MsoNormal">Best regards<br class="">
</p><p class="MsoNormal">Mariusz<b class=""><br class="">
</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><br class="">
</b></p><div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">W dniu 26.01.2023 o 06:28, Francesco
Rizzo pisze:<br class="">
</div></div><div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Dear Mariuzs, Nikita and all. When I intervene in the
discussion, I never claim to possess the truth, but I tend to
contribute to forming the process of possible truth by taking
into account everyone's contribution. I have repeatedly
supported the need to have: - a general conception of
knowledge based on the triad: meaning, information,
communication;- a particular measurement-evaluation applied in
the various natural and human knowledge. as a
quantum-semiological economist, economy like physics are
sciences based on the value of form or the form of value (even
Ettore Maiorana, the late physicist, thought so). So these two
sciences are a matter of form, not of (material) substance. If
this is the case, information presupposes meaning and is the
prerequisite for communication. . What interaction can there
be between a stone and a tree, a car and a poem, a star and
an ant, etc.? In fact, between two machines there can only be
a transmission of signals with a common code, while the
communication process between human beings it is a
transmission of meaning based on the interaction of signs
(such as, for example, the economic market) involving a
lexical code of the issuing source different from the lexical
code of the recipient recipient. I have already said more than
I thought I would write, because I'm busy writing an important
book, at least for me. However, let us never forget that
knowledge is a process based on love or on acceptance of the
other (thought), while not sharing it. A hug-Francesco.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Cari Mariuzs, Nikita e tutti.
<div class="">quando intervengo nella discussione non pretendo mai di
possedere la verità, ma protendo a contribuire </div>
<div class="">a formare il processo della verità possibile tenendo conto
del contributo di tutti. Più volte ho sostenuto</div>
<div class=""> la necessità di avere:</div>
<div class=""> - una concezione generale della conoscenza basata sulla
triade: significazione, informazione, comunicazione;</div>
<div class="">- una misurazione-valutazione particolare applicate nelle
diverse conoscenze naturali e umane.</div>
<div class="">In questo senso, non posso non ricordare che, nella qualità
di economista quantista-semio-logico, l'economia </div>
<div class="">come la fisica sono delle scienze fondate sul valore della
forma o la forma del valore (anche Ettore Maiorana, il fisico </div>
<div class="">scomparso, la pensava così). Quindi queste due scienze sono
una questione di forma, non di sostanza (materiale).</div>
<div class="">Se le cose stanno così l'informazione presuppone il
significato ed è il presupposto della comunicazione.</div>
<div class="">Si può parlare di interazione nella comunicazione e di
differenza o contrasto nell'informazione. Che interazione</div>
<div class="">vi può essere tra una pietra e un albero, una macchina e
una poesia, una stella e una formica, etc.?</div>
<div class="">Difatti, tra due macchine vi può essere solo una
trasmissione di segnali con un codice comune, mentre</div>
<div class="">il processo comunicativo tra esseri umani è una
trasmissione di senso basato sull''interazione di segni</div>
<div class="">(come, ad esempio, il mercato economico) implicante un
codice-lessico della fonte emittente diverso dal
codice-lessico</div>
<div class=""> del destinatario ricevente.</div>
<div class="">Già ho detto più di quanto pensavo di scrivere, perchè sono
impegnato nella conclusione della scrittura di un libro </div>
<div class="">importante, almeno per me. Comunque non dimentichiamo mai
che la conoscenza è un processo fondato sull'amore o </div>
<div class="">sull'accettazione dell'altro (pensiero), pur non
condividendolo.</div>
<div class="">Un abbraccio-</div>
<div class="">Francesco.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mer 25 gen 2023 alle
ore 21:18 Nikita Shklovskiy <<a href="mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">nikitashk@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Dear colleagues!</div>
It seems to me that the general concept of information can
be obtained in the form of an axiom. This can be done by
adding two more concepts to the definition: “language
system” and “meaning”. In the case of the definition
“information is everything that the sender emits that the
recipient can interpret”, four additional definitions will
have to be introduced for the concepts “sender”, “receiver”,
“radiates”, “interprets”.<br class="">
<br class="">
Efim Lieberman in 1972 realized the need to take into
account the actions spent on calculations in all biological
cells<br class="">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1016/j.biosystems.2022.104653__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!RnOEih8sgWzPRFRCWueR81K14O1xTQkUPMFOGyIS_e3Qqoj80tIU3rGT-kvAHkPBy0yw5FbjkjoGfol-47zh$" target="_blank" class="">https://doi.org/10.1016/j.biosystems.2022.104653</a><br class="">
<br class="">
In this paradigm, it is clear that information does not
exist without material carriers - code elements.<br class="">
<br class="">
For all the cells of the world, we have one language system,
which is called "Genetic Language". This is a special case
of the well-defined information written on the DNA that
created the entire Biosphere.<br class="">
Another special case is the language system of human
language - this information formed the Noosphere.<br class="">
<br class="">
The general axiomatic definition turns out to be triple and
looped: “information is something from which a language
system can derive meaning; meaning is what the language
system extracts from information, and the language system is
what extracts meaning from information.” As in the Christian
Trinity, these three concepts are “consubstantial and
indivisible.”<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">вт, 24 янв. 2023 г. в
10:34, konstantin lidin <<a href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com" target="_blank" class="">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>>:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">Thank
you, Howard.
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Your definition of information practically
coincides with Shannon's definition, only
elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as
inductors and recipients.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">In the next step, however, this approach leads
us to the notion of information quality. A message
can contain both a signal (relevant information)
and noise. But the notion of relevance of
information is subjective. Relevance is compliance
with the goals that the inductor-recipient pair
sets when exchanging information.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Do you think quarks and protons have goals and
free will?</div>
This is a very important question, because in most
areas, except for the Shannon theory of
communication, the quality of information is
ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks
too shocking to include it in a decent academic
model (about the same way the Heisenberg uncertainty
principle is still perceived)<br class="">
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" class="">
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" face="Calibri, sans-serif" class=""><b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">From:</b>
Howard Bloom <<a href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">howlbloom@aol.com</a>><br class="">
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Sent:</b> 24 January 2023 08:21<br class="">
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>;
<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>
<<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>><br class="">
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] definitions of
information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon
(1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:14pt;line-height:normal;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">the definition
of information in my book The God Problem: How a
Godless Cosmos Creates:
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">information is anything a sender emits that
a receiver can interpret.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">the first information appears when the first
quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of
the big bang. quarks read each other's social
signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on
them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus
forming protons and neutrons, which also gave
off social signals and agglomerated in
proton-neutron teams.</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:18.6667px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">with warmth
and oomph--howard</span><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font style="font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" size="2" class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">
From: konstantin lidin <<a href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com" target="_blank" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>><br class="">
To: <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>;
Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>><br class="">
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm<br class="">
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of
information by Theil (1972) derived from
Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br class="">
<br class="">
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yiv5273111498" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">Unfortunately,
Shannon's definition can only be used
in a very narrow class of cases. When
we consider any process other than the
transmission of a message from the
inductor to the recipient, this
definition does not work.
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">The most authoritative
researchers of the philosophy of
information admit that there is
still no general definition. The
concepts of information in different
spheres differ significantly and
cannot be combined into something
commonly used</div>
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L.
Introduction: The Philosophy of
Information. <i style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">
Topoi</i> <b style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">35</b>, 157–159
(2016). <a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect" id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yiv5273111498LPlnk776559" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">
https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7</a><br clear="none" class="">
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yiv5273111498yqt31644" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div dir="ltr" id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yiv5273111498divRplyFwdMsg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><font style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" face="Calibri, sans-serif" class=""><b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">From:</b> Fis
<<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>>
on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>><br clear="none" class="">
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Sent:</b> 23 January 2023 23:29<br clear="none" class="">
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br clear="none" class="">
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Subject:</b> [Fis] definitions
of information by Theil (1972)
derived from Shnnon (1948); back
to the basics?</font>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2:</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yiv5273111498x_xffee1d4888fa460cb226666f8b0a0764" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div style="margin-top:14.65pt;line-height:14.4pt;vertical-align:baseline;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<b style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;letter-spacing:0.45pt;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">1.1.
</span></i></b><b style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;letter-spacing:0.45pt;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">Information</span></i></b></div>
<div style="margin-top:9.2pt;margin-right:0.05in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:0.1in;line-height:12.1pt;vertical-align:baseline;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">Consider
an event <i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">E </i>with
probability <i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">p; </i>
the nature of the event is
irrelevant. At some point
in time we receive a
reliable message stating
that
<i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">E </i>in fact occurred.
The question is: How should
one measure the amount of
information conveyed by this
message?</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:7.3pt;line-height:11.65pt;vertical-align:baseline;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:10.5pt;letter-spacing:-0.35pt;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">Information</span></i></div>
<div style="margin-top:6.45pt;margin-right:0.05in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;text-indent:0.1in;line-height:12.85pt;vertical-align:baseline;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:10.5pt;letter-spacing:-0.1pt;font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">Since the question is
vague, we shall try to
answer it in an intuitive
manner. Suppose that
<i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">p </i>is close to 1
(e.g., <i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">p = </i>.95).
Then, one may argue, the
message conveys very little
information, because it was
virtually certain that
<i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">E w</i>ould take place.
But suppose that <i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">p =
.01, </i>so that it is
almost certain
<i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">E </i>will not occur. If
<i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">E </i>nevertheless does
occur, the message stating
this will be unexpected and
hence contains a great deal
of information.</span></div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><br clear="none" class="">
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">These intuitive
ideas suggest that, if we want
to measure the information
derived from a message in
terms of the probability
</span><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">p </i><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">that prevailed
before or to the arrival of
the message, we should select
a
</span><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">decreasing </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"New serif"" class="">function. The
function proposed by SHANNON
(1948) is </span><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class="">when
the probability prior to the
message is zero) to 0 (zero
information when the
probability is one).</span></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class=""><br clear="none" class="">
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class="">The
unit of information is
determined by the base of the
logarithm. Frequently 2 is
used as a base, which implies
that any message concerning a
50-50 event has unit
information: h() = log</span>
<span style="font-family:New;font-size:7pt" class=""><sub style="font-family:New" class="">2</sub>
</span><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class="">2
= 1, and information is then
said to be measured in binary
digits or, for short,
</span><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class="">bits.
</span></i><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class="">When
natural logarithms are used,
the information unit is a
</span><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class="">nit. </span></i></div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class=""><br clear="none" class="">
</span></i></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class="">best,
loet</span></i></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><span style="font-family:New;font-size:10pt" class=""><br clear="none" class="">
</span></i></div>
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<div style="line-height:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><b style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><font style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" size="1" face="Times New
Roman" class="">_______________</font></b></div>
<div style="line-height:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><b style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><font style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" size="1" face="Times New
Roman" class="">Loet Leydesdorff</font></b></div>
<div style="line-height:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><b style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><font style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" size="1" face="Times New
Roman" class=""><br clear="none" class="">
</font></b></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yiv5273111498x_x37dfff32a36b4410ad8e891fea6bb1b8" style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class="">
<div style="line-height:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><b style="font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><font style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" size="1" face="Times
New Roman" class=""><a rel="nofollow
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Evolutionary
Dynamics of
Discusive Knowledge"</a>(Open
Access)</font></b></div>
</div>
<div style="line-height:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><font style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" size="1" face="Times New
Roman" class="">Professor emeritus,
University of Amsterdam </font></div>
<div style="line-height:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica" class=""><font style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" size="1" face="Times New
Roman" class="">Amsterdam School of
Communication Research
(ASCoR)</font></div>
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http://www.leydesdorff.net/</a> </font></div>
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INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE
CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br clear="none" class="">
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<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">Best
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<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">Author
of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific
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("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), </font></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">Global
Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The
Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring
and sobering"-The New Yorker),</font></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">The
Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision
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<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">The God
Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates
("Bloom's argument will rock your world."
Barbara Ehrenreich),</font></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">How I
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Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best
book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle,
PJ Media), and</font></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">Einstein,
Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for
Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll
("Amazing. The writing is revelatory."
Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson
and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York
Weekly Times.</font></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">A Quartz
Magazine Pro</font></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">Former
Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology
Department, New York University, Former
Core Faculty Member, The Graduate
Institute; Current Kepler Space University
Senior Scholar.</font></div>
<div id="m_-7100580658468175718m_1063414198204177668m_8627376633056583198m_8451147752084738140m_5701875968977484887x_yqt56984" style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica" style="font-family: arial, helvetica;" class="">Founder:
International Paleopsychology Project.
Founder, Space Development Steering
Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors,
National Space Society. Founding Board
Member: Epic of Evolution Society.
Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.</font></div>
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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Никита Ефимович Шкловский-Корди<div class="">Гематологический центр.</div><div class=""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://WWW.AI-VOROBIEV.RU__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QLdEAAkck5P0ZkLQDyQDcdKf2gUGrgh2RH5IB6kZGvMx3v5eR_KkaqOPkhrRAdcybXbLYH27fsNcSIXPnTse$" target="_blank" class="">WWW.AI-VOROBIEV.RU</a> - сайт Андрея Ивановича Воробьева</div></div></div></div>
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