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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear All,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Before the end of the Lecture I would
like to come back to some early comments by Dai. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 07/01/2023 a las 23:40, Dai
Griffiths escribió:<br>
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cite="mid:CALau9k5b+BUFQMAAf9YcuNMynjPai_G8M4PztSFowQKYYVE6Rw@mail.gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear
Plamen,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I
agree that it is important to recognise the value of monastic
culture in the ‘dark ages’ and medieval period, and its
continuing influence on Western culture. As you point out, in
many ways the Catholic church is a continuation of the Roman
Empire by other means (a man in a robe sits on a throne in
Rome and issues commands). </p>
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As far as I know, after the fall of Rome the only significant urban
centers were in the Eastern part of the Empire, where all Conciliar
and Synod meetings were hold (Constantinople, Alexandria, Nicea
etc.). Rome became a small town of less than 30,000 people. The
commands of the "bishop of Rome" were almost insignificant, a little
bit different than those of the "Emperor of Rome". If we compare the
respective structures, it is clear that the Church was collegial,
and not imperial.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">However,
I am unconvinced that this is the entirely positive thing that
you seem to suggest. Indeed, you mention that “Holland, France
and England became colonial powers dominating the sea trade,
yet at the price of slavery and exploiting the native
population”, and slavery was certainly an example set by the
Roman Empire. More generally, the Roman Empire was built on
central authority and power, and the Catholic Church was
constructed on these foundations, grafting them onto the
decentralised and contemplative traditions of the early
church. </p>
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</blockquote>
The extension of Christianity was not by authority and power but by
preaching and examplarity, by support of the widows, protection of
matrimony, rejection of slavery and human sacrifices, etc. The
opposite was true, that after the Constantine edict, the Eastern
power became too entangled with Church structures, with negative
influences in Western church too --except for the genial idea of
Egyptian monasteries transplanted to the West. <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Intuitively,
most people within traditionally Christian countries assume,
with Pelagius (c. 354–418), that you get into heaven by doing
good things. But this is not compatible with an imperial
church, as you no longer need priests to achieve salvation,
and hence have no authority or power over the population.
Augustine succeeded in winning the argument with Pelagius, and
establishing the doctrine of original sin, which can only be
overcome through the grace of God, which is transmitted
through priests. Hence infants need to be baptised to avoid
being condemned to purgatory until the second coming. This is
the doctrinal mechanism whereby imperial authority was
maintained by the church. Unsurprisingly, Pelagius was
condemned as a heretic. It is worth meditating on this a
little: “If you live a good life you go to heaven” is
heretical to the Catholic Church. I certainly find the
implications to be horrendous.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">As
a Welsh person, I am aware of Pelagius because he was a Celt
(Wales, Ireland and Brittany compete for the honour or infamy
of being his birthplace). The Celtic church was monastic
(think of the Book of Kells), and in Wales it was a direct
continuation of the Roman church in Roman occupied Britain.
The Welsh church maintained a decentralised, Pelagian
tradition until the annexation of Wales by the English in
1534. So there is nothing inevitable about the imperial nature
of the church.</p>
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Pelagius lived in Jerusalem, Egypt and other places. He considered
himself "orthodox", and won in some of the synods were his ideas
were debated. Finally lost and wen to Egypt... Horrendous
implications of his defeat??? Along the many centuries of Church
life, there were dozens and dozens of other heresies. Most of them,
like Pelagius, had some point of reason. For instance, I have
always had respect (and some admiration) for the Cathar-Albigense
movement of XIII Century. For our contemporary standards they were
most advanced: culturally (troubadour culture), feminism (many
female leaders), ecologists/naturalists (cults to nature), pacifists
(anti-violence) and anti-bureaucratic. Why they were wiped out
concerns mostly to politics--the ambitions of the king of France
against the Languedoc counties too close to Aragon kingdom (our king
Pedro el católico, was actually killed in battle of Muret while he
defended his "heretic" subjects against the French crusades). What
if this movement had triumphed? Maybe, like you imply about
Pelagius, I am concerned with the cavalier involvement of Aragonese
king and the very bad consequences for this particular kingdom and
in general: religious, political, cultural... But any historic
counterfactual in these matters becomes futile. The eagerness to
attack medieval Christianity often is just a retrospective
projection of modern ideologies.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">In
1276 Ramon Llull established a monastic school in Mallorca,
five kilometres from where I am typing these words (see <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.raco.cat/index.php/Contributions/article/download/95275/411648__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Q0Q_sSUonrpENMyx1ZxV7Z8SpySpGHhSUUeHKZ-ElQjJ_BruzkJxFyJuqlIrOetPYzS054VTEeRHay1ody4PzhdXOVcV$"
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.raco.cat/index.php/Contributions/article/download/95275/411648</a>)<span
style="font-size:11pt">. There, the students (Franciscan
Minors) studied Arabic, and I believe also Greek and Hebrew,
in line with Llull’s belief that the three ‘peoples of the
book’ (Christians, Muslims and Jews) could be reconciled
through learning and logical discourse. For his efforts
Llull was excommunicated by the church, and conversion in
Christianity and Islam remained linked to imperial conquest.
Current events in Israel, Nigeria, and other countries are
illustrating the consequences of failing to attend to his
vision</span><span style="font-size:11pt">. In our time I
have found Karen Armstrong’s writing valuable in underlining
the common foundations of the major religions.</span></p>
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You are wrong in some points. Lull was highly appreciated and
lavishly funded by the Aragonese kingdom in Mallorca and by several
popes. His emphasis in preaching and in the learning of oriental
languages widely succeeded when the Council of Vienna in 1311,
during his life, ordered the creation of chairs in Hebrew, Arabic,
and Chaldean (Aramaic) in the major European universities. Lull's
scientific works were really immense, covering most realms of
knowledge and highly influential. He was indeed a very tough person;
seemingly he died due to his resolution to convert Islam by
preaching, being stoned (to death?) in Tunisia, 1315. After his
death, an envious Catalan inquisidor (Nicolas Aymerich) and a French
author, Jean Gerson, found contradictions with Thomas Aquinas works.
For some time, some of his writings were interdicted, though the
king of Aragon violently expelled the Catalan inquisidor and the
interdiction was ignored. Cardinal Cisneros was Lullist, as was
Philip the Second and many other intellectuals of the time. And soon
he became "beatus for popular cult" but the started official
beatification process was interrupted for a long time. Amazingly,
Lull finally won upon the "angelical doctor" and his beatification
was completed.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I
believe these examples help us “recognize the patterns that
let us down before and now” which you mention. They help us
consider how the Christian church in general, and monasticism
in particular, could have evolved if Christianity had not
taken on the trappings and political imperatives of the Roman
Empire. The benefits of monasticism which you describe could
still have been achieved, and perhaps we could have
sidestepped some of the most noxious manifestations of
authoritarian social structures and the “clash of
civilizations”. </p>
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<p>We do not know... it is too risky to link with the "clash of
civilizations" on the grounds that Christianity was taken on the
trappings and political imperatives of the Roman Empire. Perhaps
the Enlightenment was a little bit concerned too. <br>
</p>
<p>Rodney Stark is one of the most authoritative sociologists and
historians of religion. He is (was, as he unfortunately died
recently) an evangelist, but as he says "I did not write this book
in defense of the Church. I wrote it in defense of history. " The
book is: "Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of
Anti-Catholic History". Templeton Press, 2016. It s reading is
highly recommended. <br>
</p>
<p>All the best,</p>
<p>--Pedro<br>
</p>
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