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<p>Hello,</p>
<p></p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="">I would like to take the opportunity to share a
definition of information that is general enough to
reconcile existing definitions and understandings of
information, including ontological and epistemological
information. I would appreciate Your questions and comments.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style=""> </span><b>I<span style="">nformation is
anything that can be distinguish in any way</span></b><span
style=""> (both in and out of the mind and also in a
mind-dependent and mind-independent way).
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style=""> Examples of information:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="">Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a
tree)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="">Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="">Information as an object - a stone </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="">Information as an abstract concept - e.g.
whiteness</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="">Information as structure - e.g. any
distinguishable regularity in a binary structure</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;
background:white; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style=""> Any information interacts, so it must have
energy. E.g. a binary structure must have ones-impulses of
energy and their absence - zeros.</span><span
style="font-size:18.0pt; color:black">
</span><span style="color:black">Structures </span><span
style="">in our mind are also equipped with energy.</span></p>
<br>
</blockquote>
Best regards
<p></p>
<p>Mariusz Stanowski</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> pisze:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:798714574.11242.1674554358043@bluewin.ch">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Dear All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense:
Howard's definition has the merit of simplicity, and
Konstantin's necessary extension introduces the question of
quality.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several
abusive absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1)
subjective and objective and 2) of their total separation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in
degree of actuality and potentiality, not only, say,
information and noise, relevancy and non-relevancy and similar
pairs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This approach excludes, however, talking about information at
the level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is
added to the basic physics. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you and best wishes,</div>
<div>Joseph<br>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left:15px;">----Original
Message----<br>
From : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a><br>
Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)<br>
To : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com">howlbloom@aol.com</a><br>
Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972)
derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br>
<br>
<style type="text/css" style="display: none;">P {
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sans-serif;font-size: 12.0pt;color:
rgb(0,0,0);background-color: rgb(255,255,255);"
class="elementToProof ContentPasted0"> Thank you, Howard.
<div class="ContentPasted0"> Your definition of information
practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only
elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and
recipients. </div>
<div class="ContentPasted0"> In the next step, however, this
approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A
message can contain both a signal (relevant information)
and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is
subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals that
the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging
information. </div>
<div class="ContentPasted0"> Do you think quarks and protons
have goals and free will? </div>
This is a very important question, because in most areas,
except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality
of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this
parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent
academic model (about the same way the Heisenberg
uncertainty principle is still perceived) <br>
</div>
<hr style="display: inline-block;width: 98.0%;" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"> <font style="font-size:
11.0pt;" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Howard Bloom <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com"><howlbloom@aol.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 24 January 2023 08:21<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"><lidinkl@hotmail.com></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] definitions of information by
Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the
basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color: black;font: 14.0pt Verdana , Arial ,
Helvetica , sans-serif;"> the definition of information in
my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
<div> <br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40.0px;border:
none;padding: 0.0px;">
<div> information is anything a sender emits that a
receiver can interpret. </div>
</blockquote>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> the first information appears when the first quarks
emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang.
quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or
repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two
or three, thus forming protons and neutrons, which also
gave off social signals and agglomerated in
proton-neutron teams. </div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <span style="font-size: 18.6667px;">with warmth and
oomph--howard</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<div> <font style="color: black;font-family: arial ,
helvetica;font-size: 10.0pt;" size="2">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: konstantin lidin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"><lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; Loet Leydesdorff
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by
Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the
basics?<br>
<br>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498">
<style type="text/css">*#x_yiv5273111498 p {
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<div class="x_yiv5273111498elementToProof
x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted0
x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted1"
style="font-family: Calibri , Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size: 12.0pt;color:
rgb(0,0,0);background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> Unfortunately, Shannon's
definition can only be used in a very narrow
class of cases. When we consider any process
other than the transmission of a message from
the inductor to the recipient, this definition
does not work.
<div class="x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted0">
The most authoritative researchers of the
philosophy of information admit that there
is still no general definition. The concepts
of information in different spheres differ
significantly and cannot be combined into
something commonly used </div>
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction:
The Philosophy of Information. <i
class="x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted1"> Topoi</i>
<b class="x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted1">35</b>,
157–159 (2016). <a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
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https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7</a>
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id="x_yiv5273111498divRplyFwdMsg"> <font
style="font-size: 11.0pt;" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Fis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a>
on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br
clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 23 January 2023 23:29<br
clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br
clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] definitions of
information by Theil (1972) derived from
Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
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<div>
<div> Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2: </div>
<div>
<div
id="x_yiv5273111498x_xffee1d4888fa460cb226666f8b0a0764"
style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:
14.65pt;line-height:
14.4pt;vertical-align: baseline;"> <b><i><span
style="font-size:
9.5pt;letter-spacing: 0.45pt;">1.1.
</span></i></b> <b><i><span
style="font-size:
9.5pt;letter-spacing: 0.45pt;">Information</span></i></b>
</div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal"
style="margin-top: 9.2pt;margin-right:
0.05in;margin-bottom:
1.0E-4pt;text-align:
justify;text-indent:
0.1in;line-height:
12.1pt;vertical-align: baseline;"> <span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Consider
an event <i>E </i>with probability
<i>p; </i> the nature of the event
is irrelevant. At some point in
time we receive a reliable message
stating that <i>E </i>in fact
occurred. The question is: How
should one measure the amount of
information conveyed by this
message?</span> </div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal"
style="margin-top: 7.3pt;line-height:
11.65pt;vertical-align: baseline;"> <i><span
style="font-size:
10.5pt;letter-spacing: -0.35pt;">Information</span></i>
</div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:
6.45pt;margin-right:
0.05in;margin-bottom:
1.0E-4pt;text-indent:
0.1in;line-height:
12.85pt;vertical-align: baseline;"> <span
style="font-size:
10.5pt;letter-spacing: -0.1pt;">Since
the question is vague, we shall try
to answer it in an intuitive manner.
Suppose that <i>p </i>is close to
1 (e.g., <i>p = </i>.95). Then,
one may argue, the message conveys
very little information, because it
was virtually certain that <i>E w</i>ould
take place. But suppose that <i>p =
.01, </i>so that it is almost
certain <i>E </i>will not occur.
If <i>E </i>nevertheless does
occur, the message stating this will
be unexpected and hence contains a
great deal of information.</span> </div>
</div>
<div> <span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family: New serif;"><br
clear="none">
</span> </div>
<div> <span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family: New serif;">These
intuitive ideas suggest that, if we
want to measure the information
derived from a message in terms of the
probability </span> <i
style="font-size: 10.5pt;font-family:
New serif;">p </i> <span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;font-family:
New serif;">that prevailed before or
to the arrival of the message, we
should select a </span> <i
style="font-size: 10.5pt;font-family:
New serif;">decreasing </i> <span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;font-family:
New serif;">function. The function
proposed by SHANNON (1948) is </span>
<span style="font-family: New;font-size:
10.0pt;">when the probability prior to
the message is zero) to 0 (zero
information when the probability is
one).</span> </div>
<div> <span style="font-family:
New;font-size: 10.0pt;"><br
clear="none">
</span> </div>
<div> <span style="font-family:
New;font-size: 10.0pt;">The unit of
information is determined by the base
of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used
as a base, which implies that any
message concerning a 50-50 event has
unit information: h() = log</span> <span
style="font-family: New;font-size:
7.0pt;"><sub>2</sub></span> <span
style="font-family: New;font-size:
10.0pt;">2 = 1, and information is
then said to be measured in binary
digits or, for short, </span> <i><span
style="font-family: New;font-size:
10.0pt;">bits. </span></i> <span
style="font-family: New;font-size:
10.0pt;">When natural logarithms are
used, the information unit is a </span>
<i><span style="font-family:
New;font-size: 10.0pt;">nit. </span></i>
</div>
</div>
<div> <i><span style="font-family:
New;font-size: 10.0pt;"><br
clear="none">
</span></i> </div>
<div> <i><span style="font-family:
New;font-size: 10.0pt;">best, loet</span></i>
</div>
<div> <i><span style="font-family:
New;font-size: 10.0pt;"><br
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</span></i> </div>
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<div
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Leydesdorff</font></b> </div>
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INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER
PERSONAL <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista
de correo gestionada por la Universidad de
Zaragoza. <br clear="none">
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como
tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a
shape="rect"
href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
<br clear="none">
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista
voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia
aplicación en el momento en que lo desee. <br
clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://listas.unizar.es/"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
<br clear="none">
---------- <br clear="none">
</div>
</font>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica"><br>
</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica"><br>
</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">__________________________</font>
</div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Howard Bloom</font>
</div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Howardbloom.net</font>
</div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica"><a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.howardbloom.institute__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIiH-Gj5ho$"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.howardbloom.institute</a></font>
</div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">trailer for
BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory
of Howard Bloom, <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIi5mKNcrg$"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ </a></font>
</div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Best Picture,
Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary
Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Now available
on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft,
Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica"><br>
</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Author of: The
Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into
the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The
Washington Post), </font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Global Brain: The
Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the
21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New
Yorker),</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">The Genius of the
Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A
tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows,
National Correspondent, The Atlantic), </font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">The God Problem:
How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument
will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),</font>
</div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">How I
Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew!
Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">The Mohammed Code
(“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on
Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Einstein, Michael
Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power
Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is
revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael
Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York
Weekly Times.</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">A Quartz Magazine
Pro</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Former Visiting
Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York
University, Former Core Faculty Member, The
Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space
University Senior Scholar.</font> </div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984"> <font
size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Founder:
International Paleopsychology Project. Founder,
Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of
Board Of Governors, National Space Society.
Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society.
Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.</font>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
----------
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
----------
</pre>
</blockquote>
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