<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="elementToProof ContentPasted0">
Thank you, Howard.
<div class="ContentPasted0">Your definition of information practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and recipients.</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0">In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is subjective. Relevance is
compliance with the goals that the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information.</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0">Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will?</div>
This is a very important question, because in most areas, except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the same way
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived)<br>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Howard Bloom <howlbloom@aol.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 24 January 2023 08:21<br>
<b>To:</b> lidinkl@hotmail.com <lidinkl@hotmail.com>; fis@listas.unizar.es <fis@listas.unizar.es>; loet@leydesdorff.net <loet@leydesdorff.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color:black; font:14pt Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none; padding:0px">
<div>information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can interpret.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons
and neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in proton-neutron teams.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:18.6667px">with warmth and oomph--howard</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<div style=""><font size="2" style="color:black; font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: konstantin lidin <lidinkl@hotmail.com><br>
To: fis@listas.unizar.es <fis@listas.unizar.es>; Loet Leydesdorff <loet@leydesdorff.net><br>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br>
<br>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498"><style type="text/css">
<!--
#x_yiv5273111498 p
{margin-top:0;
margin-bottom:0}
-->
</style>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_yiv5273111498elementToProof x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted0 x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted1" style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient, this definition does not work.
<div class="x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted0">The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of information admit that there is still no general definition. The concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly and cannot be combined into
something commonly used</div>
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of Information. <i class="x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted1">
Topoi</i> <b class="x_yiv5273111498ContentPasted1">35</b>, 157–159 (2016). <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="x_yiv5273111498LPlnk776559" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$">
https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7</a><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498appendonsend"></div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_yiv5273111498yqt31644" class="x_yiv5273111498yqt0446278586">
<div dir="ltr" id="x_yiv5273111498divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <loet@leydesdorff.net><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 23 January 2023 23:29<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> fis@listas.unizar.es <fis@listas.unizar.es><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<style>
<!--
#x_yiv5273111498 #x_yiv5273111498x_xffee1d4888fa460cb226666f8b0a0764 p.x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:10pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif}
-->
</style><style>
<!--
#x_yiv5273111498 #x_yiv5273111498x_xd0f008326390429 #x_yiv5273111498x_x37dfff32a36b4410ad8e891fea6bb1b8 a:visited
{color:rgb(149,79,114);
text-decoration:underline}
#x_yiv5273111498 #x_yiv5273111498x_xd0f008326390429 p.x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
line-height:200%;
font-size:12pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif}
#x_yiv5273111498 #x_yiv5273111498x_xd0f008326390429 a:link
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline}
-->
</style><style>
<!--
#x_yiv5273111498 blockquote.x_yiv5273111498x_cite
{margin-left:5px;
margin-right:0px;
padding-left:10px;
padding-right:0px;
border-left:1px solid #cccccc}
#x_yiv5273111498 blockquote.x_yiv5273111498x_cite2
{margin-left:5px;
margin-right:0px;
padding-left:10px;
padding-right:0px;
border-left:1px solid #cccccc;
margin-top:3px;
padding-top:0px}
#x_yiv5273111498 a img
{border:0px}
-->
</style>
<div>
<div>Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2:</div>
<div>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498x_xffee1d4888fa460cb226666f8b0a0764" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:14.65pt; line-height:14.4pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">1.1. </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">Information</span></i></b></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.2pt; margin-right:0.05in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt; text-align:justify; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.1pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt">Consider an event <i>E </i>with probability <i>p; </i>
the nature of the event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable message stating that
<i>E </i>in fact occurred. The question is: How should one measure the amount of information conveyed by this message?</span></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.3pt; line-height:11.65pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.35pt">Information</span></i></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.45pt; margin-right:0.05in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.85pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.1pt">Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an intuitive manner. Suppose that
<i>p </i>is close to 1 (e.g., <i>p = </i>.95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little information, because it was virtually certain that
<i>E w</i>ould take place. But suppose that <i>p = .01, </i>so that it is almost certain
<i>E </i>will not occur. If <i>E </i>nevertheless does occur, the message stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great deal of information.</span></div>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:New serif"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:New serif">These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the information derived from a message in terms of the probability
</span><i style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:New serif">p </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:New serif">that prevailed before or to the arrival of the message, we should select a
</span><i style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:New serif">decreasing </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:New serif">function. The function proposed by SHANNON (1948) is </span><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">when the probability prior
to the message is zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">The unit of information is determined by the base of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log</span>
<span style="font-family:New; font-size:7pt"><sub>2</sub> </span><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">2 = 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary digits or, for short,
</span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">bits. </span></i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">When natural logarithms are used, the information unit is a
</span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">nit. </span></i></div>
</div>
<div><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt"><br clear="none">
</span></i></div>
<div><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">best, loet</span></i></div>
<div><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt"><br clear="none">
</span></i></div>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498x_signature_old">
<div id="x_yiv5273111498x_xd0f008326390429">
<div id="x_yiv5273111498x_x37dfff32a36b4410ad8e891fea6bb1b8">
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><b><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:9pt">_______________</font></b></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><b><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:9pt"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783030599508__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLk0MTPOc$"></a>Loet
Leydesdorff</font></b></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><b><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:9pt"><br clear="none">
</font></b></div>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498x_x37dfff32a36b4410ad8e891fea6bb1b8">
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><b style=""><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:9pt"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLLuhNS00$" style="">"The
Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"</a>(Open Access)</font></b></div>
</div>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498x_x37dfff32a36b4410ad8e891fea6bb1b8"></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:8pt">Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam </font></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:8pt">Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)</font></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:8pt"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" style="">loet@leydesdorff.net
</a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.leydesdorff.net/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLGpM1vg4$" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" style="">
http://www.leydesdorff.net/</a> </font></div>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLaBGhTzQ$" style="background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:8pt">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</font></a></div>
</div>
<div id="x_yiv5273111498x_x37dfff32a36b4410ad8e891fea6bb1b8"><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:8pt"></font></span>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal; background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)">
<font style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" style="font-size:8pt">ORCID:
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLH5t9V6o$" style="">
http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098</a>; </font><span style="font-size:10pt"></span></font></div>
<span></span>
<div class="x_yiv5273111498x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal; background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Fis mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br clear="none">
----------<br clear="none">
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br clear="none">
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a shape="rect" href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank">
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br clear="none">
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://listas.unizar.es/" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br clear="none">
----------<br clear="none">
</div>
</font>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">__________________________</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Howard Bloom</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Howardbloom.net</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.howardbloom.institute__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIiH-Gj5ho$">www.howardbloom.institute</a></font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIi5mKNcrg$">https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ </a></font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Now available on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu,
and Fandango.</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), </font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic), </font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson
and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">A Quartz Magazine Pro</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space University Senior
Scholar.</font></div>
<div class="x_yqt0446278586" id="x_yqt56984" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica" size="2">Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board
Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>