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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Plamen and colleagues,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I was pondering on the complexity of
the ongoing discussion. We have introduced historical, systemic,
and formal considerations in different combinations. So, the
thread has become pretty labyrinthine --but useful, I think. A
couple of further brief comments to enter:</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Monasteries were great--for their time.
They were the tool that achieved an enormous extension of
collective thinking across Western and Eastern Europe. Great
stories about monks and nuns traveling from an extreme of Europe
to the other, from abbey to abbey, abound (was ever German nun
Hrosvitha in Muslim Cordova learning about Islamic achievements--I
have seen contradictory versions about that). But societies turned
their backs on the monastic system, and universities took their
turn as essential collective thinking tools, say, until our times.
Our societies have arrived to their incredible complexity thanks
to science and technology (institutionalized, but developed in
quite many other places as well). The central question is, Has the
present established system of knowledge also arrived to its
limits? Is it actually unable to solve the problems it has
--directly or indirectly-- created? See the Davos' guys recipes
for the future...<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">And the second comment, really brief--
Are some of these most pressing problems related to "information"?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best regards,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">--Pedro<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> El 18/01/2023 a las 11:38, Dr. Plamen
L. Simeonov escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMBikj6Fua-tHOjR7VxKjiD_D9yCdcDdX_fj3NLVwGSVPWEi8A@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763">Thank you Joseph, Francesco and Guy!</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763">So education with response-ability is the
answer that we more or less what we all in this forum try to
address the crises that humanity faces today with a sight
back in the past and forth into the stars with concerns
about the future of our species. Are not these changes
happening at a pace so quickly now, not comparable with
familiar evolutionary agents (incl. viruses and climate
changes) that our bodies have overcome and adapted to
successfully over generations so far? Our modern era deals
with myriads of external agents simultaneously incl. EMF and
insufficiently tested genetic therapy medications which
directly affect our human nature that has slowly evolved
over millions of years. </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font
face="arial, sans-serif" color="#073763"><span
lang="EN-US">Guy’s response which I forwarded to the FIS
forum earlier makes an interesting bow and brings us
back to the<span class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bible
story about the tree of knowledge with its forbidden
fruits that made us recognize good and evil - the
nucleus of the atom, that was called so to remain
indivisible, and the nucleus of the living cell.<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span>„Don’t
touch the running system,” a computer guy and a car
mechanic told me a long time ago. </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763">Who knows how many civilizations before
us were destroyed by their curiosity? We have created
many tech menaces without knowing the real hazards they
hide. Now, LTE/6G wireless tech is planned for 2030 when
human beings are going to become walking antennas and
batteries like in the movie „The Matrix“. But we already
know that radiation from 3G mobile phones kills stem
cells in the bone marrow when carried in the pockets and
generates tumors in the brain when talking as usual. Why
do we do that? Why did we get used to technology that is
not safe (enough)? It is human nature to be be curious
and adventurous. What if this disappears?</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763">Early this morning two thoughts popped
up in my mind. Who makes this happen? You might have
experienced this phenomenon earlier. Suddenly, a stream
of clear messages pours into your conscious mind. Did
anybody open a channel? I don’t know. I woke up and
began pondering on them.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763">The first thought was about the Book of
John/Revelation which tells us how the journey ends.
This could be a bifurcation point where we could deepen
the discussion about whole teachings as archetypes and
the legacy of Christianity in the modern world. The
second thought was about the possibly unnecessary
worries we have with the (imposed (artificial)) crises,
-- “polycrises” as Klaus Schwab explains us in his
stereotype prophecies from Davos, -- we try to find a
way out right now. Two weeks ago, I met one of you by
coincidence led by unknown forces/circumstances. This
happened to be someone who has come to the same solution
I had (been poured with?) probably simultaneously with
me, but came much further than I in its realization,
because he did not discourage himself as I did. I hope
that he will present us with this idea during our
discussion; he is invited to join us. We can only wait.
Yet, even if this does not happen, here is the
conclusion/hypothesis/lesson I draw at that moment:<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;text-align:center" align="center"><i><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763">Changes to remove the problems are
already happening. Ideas are popping up in many minds
simultaneously and solutions are on the way. Instead,
we probably discuss in vain something like trying to
explain QM in terms of classical mechanics. Yet, this
discussion is still part of the action (potential)
required to be discharged to make the necessary
changes happen and everything that happened in the
past in our shared universe was right and had to be
so. What do you think?</font></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;text-align:center" align="center"><span
lang="EN-US"><font face="arial, sans-serif"
color="#073763"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font
face="arial, sans-serif" color="#073763"><span
lang="EN-US">What were people doing in tough times
before us? They prayed alone or in groups to God, the
angels, and the saints, -- not necessary in a church,
but anywhere, -- and this made them confident that they
will be heard and that help will come. They believed
that the mere act of praying is already fighting for
them and for the positive outcome of the situation. What
made them trust in the power of prayer, not only in
Christianity, but in indigenous cultures as well? Did
someone come behind the Global Consciousness project of
Roger Nelson</span><span lang="EN-US"><span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
lang="EN-US">I mentioned earlier (</span><span lang="BG"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMNRdQE2g$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://noosphere.princeton.edu</a></span><span
lang="EN-US">)? It is probably not a coincidence that
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit monk and scientist
like Rudjer Boskovic, also a Jesuit monk and scientist
who discovered the (EM) wave theory 100+ years before
Faraday and Maxwell, is the author of the Noösphere idea
mentioned earlier in this forum.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
class="gmail-MsoHyperlink"
style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
lang="BG"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMDT5WERC$" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)" moz-do-not-send="true">https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/</a></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"
lang="BG"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"
lang="BG"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
class="gmail-MsoHyperlink"
style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
lang="BG"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMInqidjK$" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere</a></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"
lang="BG"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"
lang="BG"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
class="gmail-MsoHyperlink"
style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMHb9jFmS$" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)" moz-do-not-send="true">https<span
lang="BG">://</span>link<span lang="BG">.</span>springer<span
lang="BG">.</span>com<span lang="BG">/</span>chapter<span
lang="BG">/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7</span></a></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"
lang="BG"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"
lang="BG"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
lang="BG"><font face="arial, sans-serif" color="#073763">Maybe
we need this kind of unstoppable unifying curiosity,
trust and love for all human beings. </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font
face="arial, sans-serif" color="#073763">Here below is the
kind of work we can embrace for a new beginning within
this circle.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font
face="arial, sans-serif" color="#073763">This workshop
invitation from Marcin Schroeder made my day early this
morning, </font><span
style="color:rgb(7,55,99);font-family:arial,sans-serif">a
lucky synchronicity in my view.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font
face="arial, sans-serif" color="#073763">I share it with
those who might be interested to attend this event, if he
has not done this already.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font
face="arial, sans-serif" color="#073763"><br>
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font
face="arial, sans-serif"><a class="gmail_plusreply"
id="plusReplyChip-0" moz-do-not-send="true">++++++++++++++++++++++</a><br>
</font></p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman";min-height:15px"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""><span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal"><span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b>14</b><span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:10.5px;line-height:normal"><b>th </b></span><b>INTERNATIONAL
WORKSHOP ON NATURAL COMPUTING at TOHOKU UNIVERSITY,
SENDAI, JAPAN<span class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""><b>January 20-22, 2023<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""><b><span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"><br>
</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font
face="arial, sans-serif"><b>All presentations, talks, and
discussions are in Room 115, Global Learning Center,
Building A12 on Kawauchi Campus (North) of Tohoku
University (</b>entrance to A12 is about 50 meters SW
(up the hill) from Kawauchi Subway Station – easy-to-spot
a white vending machine with the name KIRIN next to the
entrance). All sessions will be accessible via ZOOM
sessions. Please feel free to share the invitation link
with your friends who are interested in the subject.<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><b><font
face="arial, sans-serif">For those who will participate
via ZOOM:<span class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></b></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font
face="arial, sans-serif">Zoom Meeting Link <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMH1NgSo8$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09</a>
Meeting ID: 939 2576 2089 Passcode: 220105<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><b><font
face="arial, sans-serif">PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE THE
PROGRAM, LINK, ETC WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><a
class="gmail_plusreply" id="plusReplyChip-1"
moz-do-not-send="true">++++++++++++++++++++++</a><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><a
class="gmail_plusreply" moz-do-not-send="true"><br>
</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
lang="BG"><font color="#073763">Best,</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="color:rgb(7,55,99);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:medium"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"><font color="#073763">Plamen</font></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:28
AM <a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> <<a
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" moz-do-not-send="true">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">To
: <a href="mailto:plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com</a><br>
Cc : <a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>, <a
href="mailto:ghatchard@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ghatchard@gmail.com</a>, <a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>, <a
href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>, <a
href="mailto:heiko@pax-terra-musica.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">heiko@pax-terra-musica.de</a>, <a
href="mailto:bruno.marchal@insas.be" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bruno.marchal@insas.be</a>, <a
href="mailto:dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thank you,
Plamen. The tradition in which Nagarjuna worked goes
back another 700 years or
so till the time of Buddha if not earlier: real “roots”!
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
lang="EN-GB">Now, </span><span lang="EN-US">Francesco
wrote that 1) “Only information measured (measurable) in
bits of entropy can be traced back to to
Aristotelian-binary logic.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> And 2) There is no
information
that is not understood in a contradictory-probabilistic
way. So complexity has
an inherent limitation that implies the need for
selection, contingency and
risk.</span>” These statements are necessary but for me
insufficient, since the
proper way in which the need can be approached in logic,
for example by the
non-semantic Lupasco system, is not spelled out.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> Plamen</span><span
lang="EN-US"> asked: “</span><span
style="color:rgb(7,55,99)" lang="EN-US">But how can we
achieve such a giant change in
all human thinking?</span> Perhaps the only way to do
this is genetic editing
as the transhumanists promote. But what is the price of
such fast evolution and
do we want this?<span lang="EN-GB">”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span>My answer,
in agreement with Guy, is absolutely not! This would be a
step backward to a <i>Deus ex machina</i> “solution”. For
me the only way is to deepen
the connection between science, in particular information
and cognitive science
and a logic that expresses the core of the Eastern
insights, without the need
for <i>any </i>theology. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you and best wishes,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joseph</p>
</div>
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rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
<br>
---------- <br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE
PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE
CARÁCTER PERSONAL <br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo
por pertenecer a una
lista de correo
gestionada por la
Universidad de Zaragoza.
<br>
Puede encontrar toda la
información sobre como
tratamos sus datos en el
siguiente enlace: <a
href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
<br>
Recuerde que si está
suscrito a una lista
voluntaria Ud. puede
darse de baja desde la
propia aplicación en el
momento en que lo desee.
<br>
<a
href="http://listas.unizar.es"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
---------- <br>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
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