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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=JA link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Sunday, June 26, 2022 6:04 PM, <a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> wrote;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>what others might consider an oxymoron applies: <i>uncertainty</i> at the origin of the <i>precision</i> of macromolecules as computing devices”</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>If the temporal cohesion operates cumulatively as allowing the preceding products to set the conditions for the subsequent production, it may enhance its own specificity in time and look as goal-directed towards the durable. One excuse for circumventing an oxymoronic charge on more precision from more uncertainty could be to admit the intervention of indexical agents in charge of temporal cohesion. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Sunday, June 26, 2022 6:28 PM, Francesco Rizzo <a href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</a> wrote;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:27.0pt;background:#F8F9FA'><span lang=EN style='font-size:21.0pt;font-family:"inherit",serif;color:#202124;mso-fareast-language:JA'>"quantum mechanics" and / or "quantum computing" are valid for all the science of economics or the economics of science.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Thanks. Let me have some time for figuring out what you have meant. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Sunday, June 26, 2022 7:13 PM, Plamen <a href="mailto:plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com">plamen.l.simeonov@gmail.com</a> wrote;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Are there any other (anticipated) forms of biocomputation languages beyond the symbolical and indexing ones that can get mixed up at a later point in time?</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>My concern in this regard is to what extent we could be allowed to keep indexical operations intact as they are in nature. It might be a horrible idea to entertain that every computation should be symbolized as the machine-learning strategy may suggest to us. At the least, we can appreciate the generative capacity of biological computation of the indexical origin if the undisciplined mixing of the symbolical and indexical is avoided.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Koichiro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'> </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'> <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 26, 2022 6:04 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Koichiro Matsuno' <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:cxq02365@nifty.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>cxq02365@nifty.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; 'Andrei Igamberdiev' <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; 'Gordana Dodig Crnkovic' <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; 'Nikita Shklovsky' <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>nikitashk@gmail.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>fis@listas.unizar.es</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fis] Summarising this weeks discussion. Another oxymoron<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Koichiro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This statement is certainly valid. What Andrei and I have been trying to say is that Heisenberg uncertainty is one of a larger group of process descriptions characterized by uncertainty, imprecision, ‘diversity’, <i>etc.</i> Their elements, however. are always dual, instantiating actuality and potentiality in a changing, reciprocal relation. “Integration”, e.g., of symbolical and indexical is not necessary if this would mean that the terms lose their identity. The logic is a logic of dynamic coexistence.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It is, at least for me, a measure of the validity of your approach that what others might consider an oxymoron applies: <i>uncertainty</i> at the origin of the <i>precision</i> of macromolecules as computing devices”. I think Lupasco would have appreciated this formulation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Joseph <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> Fis <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Koichiro Matsuno<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 26, 2022 10:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Andrei Igamberdiev' <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>>; 'Gordana Dodig Crnkovic' <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>>; 'Nikita Shklovsky' <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>nikitashk@gmail.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>>; </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>; </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>fis@listas.unizar.es</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Summarising this weeks discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Saturday, June 25, 2022 3:54 AM, Andrei Igamberdiev </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;mso-fareast-language:JA'>a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> wrote;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I suggested the idea that the Heisenberg uncertainty ratio “energy-time” can explain the precision of operation of macromolecules as computing devices in living systems</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Quantum mechanics has been an attempt for preventing us from falling into a helpless abyss in case symbolical and indexical languages simply got mixed up. QM regulation integrating both the symbolical and indexical, e.g., conservation laws and measurements, as epitomized in the uncertainty relation, is an instance of quantum computation, and relevant to biology also.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> Koichiro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:游ゴシック;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'> Andrei Igamberdiev <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 25, 2022 3:54 AM<br><b>To:</b> Gordana Dodig Crnkovic <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; Nikita Shklovsky <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:nikitashk@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>nikitashk@gmail.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; Koichiro Matsuno <</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:cxq02365@nifty.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>cxq02365@nifty.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>; </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>fis@listas.unizar.es</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Summarising this weeks discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Dear Gordana, Joseph, Koichiro and Nikita, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>In my opinion, the exchange between Joseph and Koichiro regarding the transitions between the potential and the actual is very important as this is the point where we can approach closer to the nature of macromolecular (and biological) computation. The whole process of computation is directly related to the aspects of “potentiality in reality”. The advanced systems that developed complex behavior are able to hold the potential for a prolonged time to make precise outputs based on the choice of particular result that help the system to navigate in the external world. This means that such holding the potential corresponds to the abstracting capacity, which was clarified in recent papers of Koichiro. This also corresponds to the duality of actual entity and of abstract entity in the philosophy of A.N. Whitehead. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Many years ago, in my first paper of BioSystems (1993) I suggested the idea that the Heisenberg uncertainty ratio “energy-time” can explain the precision of operation of macromolecules as computing devices in living systems in a way that the prolonged time of quantum measurement corresponds to the minimum dissipation of energy in it, i.e. to the precise result and thus represents the basis of natural computation performed by macromolecular devices. These devices operate as molecular automata of the extremal quantum computer, and their set maintains highly ordered robust coherent state, which precisely directs actualizations in the course of natural computational process. During this process, single events corresponding to realization of interacting individual programs form a percolating network, and this leads to concrete spatial patterns constructed using optimal coordinate scales. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I am confident that this concept has a potential for development, and it is grounded in the ideas expressed by Efim Liberman in his conceptual approach to natural computation. Several concrete aspects of the quantum biological computation were outlined in the works of Koichiro Matsuno, including the estimation of actual energy dissipation in the course of measurement accompanied by emitting quanta, each carrying energy E at every time interval τ (Matsuno and Paton, 2000, BioSystems 55: 39-46). The works of Yukio Gunji, of Andrei Khrennikov, also earlier works of Howard Pattee and others, are particularly important in this development, although we are still at the beginning of this important paradigm of the “new science”. In this development, the paradigm of the new science will incorporate the ideas of relational biology formulated by Robert Rosen, which will result in overcoming their too abstract original representation. Summarizing, I would say that we have all prerequisites for the concept of natural computation that can be applied to the real world, and the logic of potentiality in reality is in the core of this paradigm. The real world is <i>tantot libre, tantot recherché </i>(Beethoven words), and this is a pledge of freedom, which is the basis of the existence of the world and its evolution. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>All the best, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Andrei <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>