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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Koichiro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Of your many contributions to knowledge and this list, this one most clearly supports the core thesis of my non-standard logic of processes and its principle of dynamic opposition having equivalent status to formal quantum mechanics in some macroscopic cases. To help above all me to understand this better, I would be very grateful for examples of the operations<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>In which you see “concurrent operation of symbolic and indexical languages”. I would like to use these for a direct comparison with the concept of potentiality I have been proposing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I would just like to suggest that such concurrent participation does not exclude and perhaps implies that, perhaps in the very biological cases of interest, the two types of phenomena corresponding to your epistemic categories are not totally separated or separable. The most basic example I can think of is that of kinetic and potential energy. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>To repeat, where you write symbolical and indexical languages, which are formally distinct (epistemological, separable), I see the actual and potential proper parts of processes (ontological, non-separable). Dynamic opposition is thus a necessary principle of non-separability operating in the “various disciplines”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I look forward to your response, and that of All, with great interest.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Koichiro Matsuno<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 20, 2022 10:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'fis' <fis@listas.unizar.es><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] [External Email] Re: Biological computation session - Kickoff Text. Comment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>Sunday, June 19, 2022 1:34 AM, </span><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> wrote;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'>></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> I believe we may consider an area of science in which a dynamics of simultaneous actuality-potentiality provides the necessary macroscopic explanations, in which the processes involved are nevertheless <i>quantum-like,</i></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> Quantum Mechanics is peculiar in allowing for both symbolic and indexical languages as demonstrated in the non-commutability of some indexical operations. Likewise, such concurrent participation of the both types of languages remains wide open even to various macroscopic disciplines without referring to QM directly. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'> Koichiro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'> Fis <</span><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>> <b>On Behalf Of </b></span><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'><br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 19, 2022 1:34 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Andrei Igamberdiev' <</span><a href="mailto:a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>a_igamberdiev@hotmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; 'Stanley N Salthe' <</span><a href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>ssalthe@binghamton.edu</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; 'fis' <</span><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>fis@listas.unizar.es</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>>; 'Gordana Dodig Crnkovic' <</span><a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:JA'>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] [External Email] Re: Biological computation session - Kickoff Text. Comment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Dear Gordana, Andrei, Nikita, Stan, and All, </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>If I may, I would like to offer a brief summary of that part of the current discussion dealing with aspects of potentiality, with many thanks. The for me central issues were implied in the following, all on June 17:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Andrei: <o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;mso-add-space:auto;line-height:105%'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The potential field of the internal quantum state implies the simultaneous existence of contradictory statements (JEB: antagonistic phenomena?)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;mso-add-space:auto;line-height:105%'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The realization of Joseph’s approach, not only philosophically, but from the point of view of natural science, <i>require certain structures that can hold potentiality.</i> <o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=2 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Stan: What happens to your statement if the quantum idea is removed?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Andrei: I don’t see another way of explaining how a system holds a coherent state for a prolonged time, without applying a theory that deals with the transition between the potential and the actual. If the quantum idea is removed, then we remove any possible explanations of the internal determination of biological activity and the problem of self.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Stan:<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;mso-add-space:auto;line-height:105%'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So then a QM interpretation would be validated as being ‘about’ something real in an aspect of actual nature (here a living cell) by way of constructing compatibility with a microscopic perspective derived from conventional microscopic science?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It is quite a remarkable experience for me to see these ideas juxtaposed, finally discussed although certainly not in final form. I believe we may consider an area of science in which a dynamics of simultaneous actuality-potentiality provides the necessary macroscopic explanations, in which the processes involved are nevertheless <i>quantum-like. </i>I would call this an <i>unconventional </i>interpretation of standard science.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>If I take the example of intersubjectivity, we may thus consider here a non-quantum concept for its grounding solely in the macroscopic interactions described.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Best, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>----------<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>