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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Arieh and FIS Colleagues,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Again, regarding the interpretation of
entropy as information or uncertainty (respect locations &
momenta), my suggestion is that we should call "something else" to
the extensive magnitude we are measuring. Otherwise, we easily
give room to all those pseudo-interpretations you wonderfully
describe and the general confusion with information. When I was
teaching a bio-discipline for engineer students, I was using the
term "freedom". You are measuring the degrees of freedom of the
system, I was telling, how much they have changed either
increasing or decreasing along the process. And that quantity of
degrees of freedom when multiplied by the temperature gives the
energy gained or lost via entropy change. So, the application of
SMI to the system what tells us is about the degrees of freedom
statistical measurement. In short: the new freedom status of the
system. It may not be a terrific theoretical interpretation, but
my students loved it (I confess that previously I was using
Lambert's "dispersal", until I saw your criticisms in the web).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">All of this is well depicted in Gibbs'
formula for the free energy of chemical reactions, with the part
due to ENTHALPY change (basically internal energy), and the part
due to ENTROPY change x Temp. Given than most biological --all!--
occur to room temperature (or far lower), the resulting
contribution of entropy is pretty moderate. Actually I was
checking chemical tables of many biological reactions, and the
contribution of entropy was generally an order of magnitude lower
than enthalpy--around 10% or less. I wonder --following Howard's
comment days ago-- all the obsession with entropy and the
universal neglect of enthalpy. It is enthalpy (or internal energy,
or free energy) the big concern of all biological systems, "the
food of today", rather than the negentropy or low entropy you
graciously comment. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I had also a comment regarding Joseph's
and Jerry's on Pauli Exclusion Principle, but better for another
day.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best wishes to all--Pedro<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 08/01/2021 a las 19:22, Arieh
Ben-Naim escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE-Zns9M1bQfJ_bZ_HyL0LMUPULLHmtiVS7kZQLpNgUSmZ9FTQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Dear Pedro and everyone else interested.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I will briefly answer your questions, as I have
discussed these in more details in my previews publications.</div>
<div dir="auto">Regarding the interpretation of entropy as a
measure of information and as uncertainty.</div>
<div dir="auto">In my view these are the only valid
interpretations of entropy, provided that one specifies
information about what, and uncertainty with respect to what.
Both of these are discussed in my book on “Information Theory”
and in “Entropy: the Greatest Blunder in the History of
Science.”</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regarding the question of dimensions for
entropy, I have also discussed that in my book on “Farewell to
Entropy.”</div>
<div dir="auto">In my view this is a result of historical
“accident” that temperature was given a special dimensions
that were not used before in physics:”degrees” </div>
<div dir="auto">If temperature was given the dimensions of
energy, then entropy would become dimensionless. This would
ease the acceptance of the only correct interpretation of
entropy either as a measure of information or a measure of
uncertainty (in both cases the information and uncertainty
with respect to the distribution of locations and momenta of
all particles of the system at equilibrium)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In my recent book I have criticized both
Shermer’s and Pinker’s misuses of the concept of entropy in
their books.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I hope I have answered your questions, though
very briefly.</div>
<div dir="auto">Best regards</div>
<div dir="auto">Arieh</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 15:40 Pedro C. Marijuan <<a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear Arieh
& FISers,<br>
<br>
My appreciation for your elegant and lively contribution.
Reading about <br>
labeling the food on their "negentropy content" or advising
on low <br>
entropy food (icy water!) was a most humorous way to
criticize all the <br>
nonsense and "mystical mystery tours" around entropy.
Particularly, <br>
Atkins (& Dawkins) quasi-religious views have always
been unswallowable <br>
for me. Anyhow, two further aspects I would like to hear
from you.<br>
<br>
First, to put it most briefly, what basic, visual image
would you convey <br>
for an intuitive understanding of entropy beyond the
technicality of <br>
SMI? Uncertainty, chaos, disorder, diffusion, dispersal...
some many <br>
terms around! I could see years ago some heated exchanges
you had with <br>
Frank Lambert, the champion of entropy as energy dispersal.
There is <br>
also a longish comment on how Steven Pinker approaches <br>
entropy-information-evolution-cognition as the four
fundamental concepts <br>
in our scientific understanding of the world. He is wrong
(IMO) in all <br>
of them! Although it he is an extraordinary social
psychologist the <br>
basic sci. background he proposes is tainted. If we could
give a more <br>
sound "tetrad" even with those same concepts, it would be a
great <br>
outcome. Clarifying entropy in all aspects we could advance
would a <br>
terrific step.<br>
<br>
And second (maybe to be discussed later on) do you accept
"dimensions" <br>
for entropy? The units of jules/degreeK aren't they derived
from having <br>
entered the Boltzmann's constant? Why do we need at all
separate units <br>
for temperature and energy?<br>
<br>
Thanks for all the exchanges so far!<br>
<br>
Best--Pedro<br>
<br>
-- <br>
-------------------------------------------------<br>
Pedro C. Marijuán<br>
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<br>
<br>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Prof. Arieh Ben-Naim<br>
Department of Physical Chemistry<br>
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem<br>
Jerusalem, 91904<br>
Israel</div>
<br>
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<p><br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
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