<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Dear Joseph and Krassimir,</div>The question has been raised whether probabilities are “physical" or “logical”.<div class="">In order to speak about this consider first a classical probability situation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have a die and assert that the probability of getting a three on the upward face is 1/6 given that it is a fair die.</div><div class="">Here we have the logic of probability: There are six faces to the die. By definition a die is fair if all the faces are equally likely. Therefore the mathematical probability of any given face is 1/6.</div><div class="">This is logical probability. We can write whole books about it without every doing an experiment and without ever playing craps.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But this is practical mathematics since a real die when tossed does have percentages for its faces and if I run a casino I will make sure that these percentages (obtained by experiment) are approximating </div><div class="">fair dice. Then I can design the rules of the games to go in my favor. But there is no such thing as “physical probability”. There is only the results of experiments showing the frequencies of the outcomes. Dice are very simple systems and there is no reason to suppose that the simple mathematical models do not apply. They do apply and I can get rich as a casino owner, even without being a crook.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This classical mathematical or logical probablity proceeds by counting the possibilities and working out the probabilities from these counts.</div><div class="">It relates to the physical in situations where we believe that these counts apply to possibilities in the actual physical system. Thus a tossed die will show one of its six faces.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In the quantum situation we do not count possibilities in the same way. The model predicts frequencies of events but these frequencies are NOT probabilities in the above sense of counting.</div><div class="">They are predicted frequencies and under certain circumstances the frequencies work out to match the mathematics or logical part. Indeed God does not play dice. When God plays by quantum rules, we can only guess or use a frequency table derived from the quantum laws to predict the outcome, but we do not know how God does it! The quantum theory tells us that if some things are certain then other (complementary) things are correspondingly uncertain. This follows from the mathematical model and it is born out in our observations. Some properties of quantum objects such as momentum and position are not intrinsic properties of the objects. They depend upon the observation. </div><div class="">In a certain sense everything we “know” depends upon our observation. </div><div class="">Without observation there is no-thing. </div><div class="">And I do mean no-thing </div><div class="">I do not mean nothing.</div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Lou Kauffman</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 13, 2020, at 3:28 AM, Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" class="">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place" class=""><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName" class=""><div class="Section1" style="page: Section1;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">Dear All,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">I forward this message of Krassimir to maintain the momentum of the discussion, although I disagree with it. It would be correct ONLY if probabilities had to be defined in epistemic terms (statistical or logical, my question stands).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">In my view, probabilities are closely related to potentialities (trends, propensities) which are real properties of real physical processes. Information is embedded in such potentialities and probabilities, and it changes as they change.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">OF COURSE humans are required, but they are also required to say that gravity is gravity, that anything physical is physical. We thus perceive and interpret change as ‘time’.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">OF COURSE, Shannon’s probability and information approaches are incomplete, but as Loet continues to show, they are capable of being extended, and there are also other ways to do this, for example by going to an ontological (real, energetic) model.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">The question of whether quantum theory is useful for defining information is of a different kind, since it refers to a non-thermodynamic domain, and information for me refers ONLY to thermodynamic processes. This is why I asked Louis my question in the way I did.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">I would be very grateful for any comments that suggest that my point of view might be even partially correct.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">Thank you and best wishes,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">Joseph<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">P.S. The idea that information is lost in cosmological black holes is consistent with the above. Humans cannot approach a black hole (“to see what it’s like”) any more than they can the nucleus of an atom. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" class=""> </span></font></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1" class=""></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:personname w:st="on" class="">Krassimir Markov</st1:personname><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:markov@foibg.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>lundi, 12 octobre 2020 20:15<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Joseph Brenner; 'Louis Kauffman'<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Cc:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">yxs@pku.edu.cn</a><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Fis] black hole and information. Probabilities</span></font><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span></font></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Dear Joseph,</span></font><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">I have just answered to Louis.</span></font><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Below I duplicate the answer.</span></font><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Dear Louis,<br class="">The main problem is that probability is created by humans and only humans can compute probabilities!<br class="">There are no probabilities in the reality.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">It is a human model for evaluation of what may happen. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Because of this, both Probability theory and Quantum Theory are not good for defining information.</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Of course, the probability paradigm is originated by Shannon and its theory for signals.</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">But during the time, it was seen that it is a dead end.</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Probabilities are not physical and could not be assumed as physical information.<br class="">They are mental models!</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Friendly greetings</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Krassimir</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><br class="">PS: I am writing “off line” because of FIS limits.</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Joseph Brenner</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 12, 2020 7:55 PM<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" title="loukau@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">'Louis Kauffman'</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" title="markov@foibg.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">'Krassimir Markov'</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">Cc:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">'FIS'</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" title="yxs@pku.edu.cn" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">yxs@pku.edu.cn</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: [Fis] black hole and information. Probabilities<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">Dear Lou,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">I agree with your definition of physical information as capturing a major aspect of it. To help in understanding, though, could you please indicate if the probabilities in your physical states are statistical or logical? The same question applies to quantum theory: is the generalized probability here statistical or logical? Krassimir’s note clearly refers to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class=""><span style="font-style: italic;" class="">non</span></i>-quantum interactions. Will it turn out that the probabilities in the macroscopic and quantum worlds will be of different types?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">An eager student,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; color: navy;" class="">Joseph<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1" class=""></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Fis [<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Louis Kauffman<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>lundi, 12 octobre 2020 18:21<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:personname w:st="on" class=""><st1:personname w:st="on" class="">Krassimir Markov</st1:personname></st1:personname><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Cc:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>FIS;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">yxs@pku.edu.cn</a><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Fis] black hole and information</span></font><font class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Dear Krassimir,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">A physical state is represented by a wave function which can be construed as a vector |z>= (z1,z2,…) in an infinite dimensional space such that ||z||^2 = Sum_{i}(|z_i|^2) converges to 1.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Measuring z produces one of the basis vectors |e_i> = (0,0,…,1,0,0,0…) (where 1 is in the ith place) with probability |z_{i}|^2. (More generally, one has a Hilbert space and and integral rather than a summation.)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">In a specific application the basis vectors correspond to actual possibilities of measurement by some devices (e.g. the positions when an electron could hit a screen).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">The information in |z> is this probability distribution coupled with the interpretations of the measurements. Under physical processes that are not measurements “the information is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">preserved” in the sense that ||z||^2 is left unchanged by those (unitary) processes. Quantum Theory is a generalized probability theory in this sense.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">In my understanding, the above is what is meant by “physical information”.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Lou Kauffman<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:05 PM,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:personname w:st="on" class=""><st1:personname w:st="on" class="">Krassimir Markov</st1:personname></st1:personname><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">markov@foibg.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div><div class=""><div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Dear Xueshan,<br class="">Thank you for your remarks.<br class=""> </span></font><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">What is methodical error in physics is that the different physical interactions like gravitation are assumed as information.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Can one describe what kind of information "Comet A can transmits to comet B".<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Only physical, chemical or mechanical interactions may exists in the not living nature.</span></font><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Biological, psychological and sociological interactions are specific only for living creatures.</span></font><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">"<i class=""><span style="font-style: italic;" class="">Does the moon exist when no one sees it?</span></i>"<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Yes, it exists, but it doesn't know anything about itself as well as it is not recognized as an object by other objects.<br class="">The same is valid for all objects in the nature.</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Finally, I could not understand what means“the black hole information is physical”.<br class="">Please, can you describe the “physical information”.<br class="">Is it the same as the reflection i.e. some structural or functional changes after physical,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>chemical or mechanical interactions?</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><br class=""></span></font><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Friendly greetings</span></font><font face="Courier New" class=""><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Krassimir</span></font><font face="Courier New" class=""><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" title="yxs@pku.edu.cn" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">Xueshan Yan</span></font></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class="">Monday, October 12, 2020 4:13 AM<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">FIS</span></font></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class="">Re: [Fis] black hole and information<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Dear Krassimir,<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: 27pt; line-height: 17pt;"><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Very sorry for my late reply.<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: 27pt; line-height: 17pt;"><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">1. Yes, your statement "<i class=""><span style="font-style: italic;" class="">The Nobel Prize is given to<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">researchers</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>but not to the Black hole.</span></i>" is more precise than my "<i class=""><span style="font-style: italic;" class="">This year's Nobel Prize in physics goes to black hole<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">research</span></b></span></i>".<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: 27pt; line-height: 17pt;"><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">2. "<i class=""><span style="font-style: italic;" class="">Without observer there is no black hole entropy, there is no information</span></i>." Inadvertently, you have raised a quantum mechanical question of information. If we can remember, Einstein and Bohr have a long debate that has an essential impact on quantum mechanics. That is "<i class=""><span style="font-style: italic;" class="">Does the moon exist when no one sees it?</span></i>" If there isn’t any human observer, does "black hole entropy or information" exist? I don't know.<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: 27pt; line-height: 17pt;"><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">3. "Comet A can transmits<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">information</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>to comet B", this<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">information</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>about the behavior of the two comets greatly enriches our understanding of astrophysics. Here, the first information is physical and the second is human. Therefore, in my immature view, your "<i class=""><span style="font-style: italic;" class="">Consciousness is needed to reflect reality and to assume some reflections as information</span></i>." is a human informatics problem, while the black hole information is physical.<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: 27pt; line-height: 17pt;"><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Karl's prediction is a great encouragement to us and will come true soon, let's be ready to accept the prize next year or later.<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 17pt;"><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Best wishes,<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Courier New" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Xueshan<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: 10pt; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p> </span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> <st1:personname w:st="on" class=""></st1:personname></span></span></b><st1:personname w:st="on" class="">Krassimir Markov</st1:personname><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, October 6, 2020 10:18 PM<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">yxs@pku.edu.cn</span></font></a>; FIS Group <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a>><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Fis] black hole and information<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-indent: 10pt; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p> </span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Dear Xueshan,</span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">I have only one remark.<br class="">The Nobel Prize is given to researchers but not to the Black hole and not to any other object in the Cosmos!</span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><br class="">Without observer there is no Black hole entropy, there is no information.<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">So, the consciousness is needed to reflect reality and to assume some reflections as information.</span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p> </span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Friendly greetings</span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Krassimir</span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> <u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> <u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> <u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> <u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" title="yxs@pku.edu.cn" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font size="2" color="#954f72" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">Xueshan Yan</span></font></a></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class="">Tuesday, October 06, 2020 3:37 PM<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font size="2" color="#954f72" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">FIS Group</span></font></a></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" class=""><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class=""> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" class="">[Fis] black hole and information<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> <u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="3" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 等线;" class="">Dear colleagues</span></font><font face="等线" class="">，</font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> </span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="3" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 等线;" class="">This year's Nobel Prize in physics goes to black hole research today. When the curvature of space-time of a celestial body is so large that even light cannot escape from its event horizon, we call it a black hole. I. Once a black hole is formed, except for mass, angular momentum, and electric charge, all the previous material properties as objects disappear; II. The horizon area of the black hole is equal to its entropy (entropy equals negative information). These two issues form a close relationship between the research of black hole and information. The follow-up effect of this year's Nobel Prize in physics may lead to further thinking on the information in the future by astrophysicists, and lay a reverie foundation for the informational interpretation of matter several years later.<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="2" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""> </span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="3" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 等线;" class="">Best wishes and health,<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; line-height: 16pt;" class=""><font size="3" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 等线;" class="">Xueshan<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center;"><font size="3" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><hr size="4" width="100%" align="center" class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Fis mailing list<br class=""></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">Fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Calibri;" class=""><br class=""></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</span></font></a></span></font><font face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Calibri;" class=""><br class="">----------<br class="">INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<br class=""><br class="">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br class="">Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:city w:st="on" class=""><st1:city w:st="on" class=""><st1:place w:st="on" class="">como</st1:place></st1:city></st1:city><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</span></font></a></span></font><font face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Calibri;" class=""><br class="">Recuerde que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicacisn en el momento en que lo desee.<br class=""></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">http://listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Calibri;" class=""><br class="">----------<u1:p class=""></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div></div><u1:p class=""></u1:p><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class=""> </span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center;"><font size="3" face="SimSun" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;" class=""><hr size="2" width="99%" noshade="" align="center" class=""></span></font></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td style="padding: 0cm 11.25pt 0cm 6pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="SimSun" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: none;" class=""><img border="0" width="90" height="33" id="_x0000_i1027" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo" class=""></span></font></a></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" color="#3d4d5a" face="Calibri" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(61, 77, 90);" class="">Този имейл е проверен за вируси от Avast.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></span></font><font face="SimSun" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: SimSun;" class=""><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" face="Calibri" class="">www.avast.com</font></a></span></font><font face="SimSun" class=""><span style="font-family: SimSun;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="SimSun" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span></font><font size="2" face="等线" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 等线;" class=""><u1:p class=""></u1:p><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span></font><font face="SimSun" class=""><span style="font-family: SimSun;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center;"><font size="3" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" class=""></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="3" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Fis mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">Fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a><br class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</span></font></a><br class="">----------<br class="">INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<br class=""><br class="">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br class="">Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</span></font></a><br class="">Recuerde que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicacisn en el momento en que lo desee.<br class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="#954f72" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">http://listas.unizar.es</span></font></a><br class="">----------<o:p class=""></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""><font size="1" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">Fis mailing list</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""></span></font><font class=""><span style="" class=""><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">Fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""></span></font><font class=""><span style="" class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">----------</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></font><font class=""><span style="" class=""><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.</span><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""></span></font><font class=""><span style="" class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">http://listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><br style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">----------</span></span></font></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>