<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">I have recently found two relevant—to me—quotations about <br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">computation and information in the following book: </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"> Françoise Chatelin, </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"> <i>Qualitative Computing: A Computational Journey into Nonlinearity</i>, </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"> World Scientific, 2012 </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">> Computation shapes our mental image of the world. To live </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">up to the challenges of a physically limited planet it is vital that </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">science embraces the larger picture offered by hypercomputation. </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">All it takes is to view the essence of information as immaterial, </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">rather than having a purely physical origin. For Shannon’s heirs </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">in computer science and biology, information is mechanical </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">entropy. True but reductionist: paradoxical mathematics tells </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">us that information is, above all, eidetic intelligence ruled by </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">an organic logic < (p. 29) </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">> Because of the multitude of equally valid answers, paradoxical </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">computation describes what “is possible” and not strictly what </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">“is”. The analysis based on paradoxical computation stops being </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">deterministic without becoming random < (p. 189) <br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">Best, -dino buzzetti </div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 at 07:05, Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Dear Krassimir and colleagues, </div><div><br></div><div>@Thanks Joe for forwarding.</div><div><br></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><blockquote cite="http://A13CF1C7C34143E9AE2CF518F2B9C1DF@laptopr7q1bsbb" type="cite"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span>The main problem is that probability is created by humans and only humans can
compute probabilities!</span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><font face="Calibri" size="4">Why is this a problem? It seems an advantage to me.<br></font><blockquote cite="http://A13CF1C7C34143E9AE2CF518F2B9C1DF@laptopr7q1bsbb" type="cite"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
There are no probabilities in the reality. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span>It is a human model
for evaluation of what may happen.</span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><font face="Calibri" size="4">Indeed, this is precisely one among the noted advantages. <br></font><blockquote cite="http://A13CF1C7C34143E9AE2CF518F2B9C1DF@laptopr7q1bsbb" type="cite"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13.5pt">But during the time,
it was seen that it is a dead end.</span><br></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Probabilities are not
physical and could not be assumed as physical information.<br>
They are mental models!</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><font face="Calibri" size="4">Do we have any non-mental models. Do you not confuse modeling with physics?</font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4">Being not a physicist, I would not know what physical information is. </font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4"><br></font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4">Shannon's H is not a physical, but a mathematical measure. When one applies it to particles (momenta and energy distributions) one can relate it to physics; S = k(B) H relates H to thermodynamics. Physics, however, is not the main field of application for probability theory and information theory. </font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4"><br></font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4">Best,</font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4">Loet</font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4"><br></font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4"><br></font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4">Best,</font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4">Loet</font></div><div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498x3c04cfeac26b4e1"><font face="Calibri" size="4"><br></font><blockquote cite="http://A13CF1C7C34143E9AE2CF518F2B9C1DF@laptopr7q1bsbb" type="cite"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span><br></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Friendly greetings</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Krassimir</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
PS: I am writing “off line” because of FIS limits.</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">Joseph
Brenner</a> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> Monday, October 12,
2020 7:55 PM<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">To:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" title="loukau@gmail.com" target="_blank">'Louis Kauffman'</a> ; <a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" title="markov@foibg.com" target="_blank">'Krassimir Markov'</a> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">'FIS'</a> ; <a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" title="yxs@pku.edu.cn" target="_blank">yxs@pku.edu.cn</a> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> RE:
[Fis] black hole and information. Probabilities<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Dear Lou,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">I agree with your definition of physical information as capturing a
major aspect of it. To help in understanding, though, could you please indicate
if the probabilities in your physical states are statistical or logical? The
same question applies to quantum theory: is the generalized probability here
statistical or logical? Krassimir’s note clearly refers to <i><span style="font-style:italic">non</span></i>-quantum interactions. Will it turn out
that the probabilities in the macroscopic and quantum worlds will be of
different types?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">An eager student,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Joseph<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Louis Kauffman<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> lundi, 12 octobre 2020 18:21<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <u></u><u></u>Krassimir Markov<u></u><u></u><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> FIS; <a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" target="_blank">yxs@pku.edu.cn</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] black hole and
information</span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dear Krassimir,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">A physical state is represented by a wave
function which can be construed as a vector |z>= (z1,z2,…) in an infinite
dimensional space such that ||z||^2 = Sum_{i}(|z_i|^2) converges to 1.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Measuring z produces one of the basis
vectors |e_i> = (0,0,…,1,0,0,0…) (where 1 is in the ith place) with
probability |z_{i}|^2. (More generally, one has a Hilbert space and and
integral rather than a summation.)<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">In a specific application the basis
vectors correspond to actual possibilities of measurement by some devices (e.g.
the positions when an electron could hit a screen).<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The information in |z> is this
probability distribution coupled with the interpretations of the measurements.
Under physical processes that are not measurements “the information is <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">preserved” in the sense that ||z||^2 is
left unchanged by those (unitary) processes. Quantum Theory is a generalized
probability theory in this sense.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">In my understanding, the above is what is
meant by “physical information”.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Lou Kauffman<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:05 PM, <u></u><u></u>Krassimir Markov<u></u><u></u> <<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" target="_blank">markov@foibg.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Dear Xueshan,<br>
Thank you for your remarks.<br>
</span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">What is methodical
error in physics is that the different physical interactions like gravitation
are assumed as information. <span> </span><br>
Can one describe what kind of information "Comet A can transmits to comet
B".<span> </span><br>
Only physical, chemical or mechanical interactions may exists in the not living
nature.</span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Biological, psychological
and sociological interactions are specific only for living creatures.</span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">"<i><span style="font-style:italic">Does the moon exist when no one sees it?</span></i>"<span> </span></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Yes, it exists, but it
doesn't know anything about itself as well as it is not recognized as an object
by other objects.<br>
The same is valid for all objects in the nature.</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Finally, I could not
understand what means“the black hole information is physical”.<br>
Please, can you describe the “physical information”.<br>
Is it the same as the reflection i.e. some structural or functional changes
after physical,<span> </span>chemical or
mechanical interactions?</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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</span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Friendly greetings</span></font><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Krassimir</span></font><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" title="yxs@pku.edu.cn" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">Xueshan Yan</span></font></a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">Monday, October 12,
2020 4:13 AM<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">To:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">FIS</span></font></a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">Re: [Fis] black hole
and information<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Dear
Krassimir,<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6pt;text-indent:27pt;line-height:17pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Very sorry for my late reply.<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12pt;text-indent:27pt;line-height:17pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">1. Yes, your
statement "<i><span style="font-style:italic">The Nobel Prize is given to<span> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">researchers</span></b><span> </span>but not to the Black hole.</span></i>"
is more precise than my "<i><span style="font-style:italic">This year's
Nobel Prize in physics goes to black hole<span> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">research</span></b></span></i>".<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12pt;text-indent:27pt;line-height:17pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">2. "<i><span style="font-style:italic">Without observer there is no black hole entropy,
there is no information</span></i>." Inadvertently, you have raised a
quantum mechanical question of information. If we can remember, Einstein and
Bohr have a long debate that has an essential impact on quantum mechanics. That
is "<i><span style="font-style:italic">Does the moon exist when no one
sees it?</span></i>" If there isn’t any human observer, does "black
hole entropy or information" exist? I don't know.<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12pt;text-indent:27pt;line-height:17pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">3. "Comet A
can transmits<span> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">information</span></b><span> </span>to comet B", this<span> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">information</span></b><span> </span>about the behavior of the two comets
greatly enriches our understanding of astrophysics. Here, the first information
is physical and the second is human. Therefore, in my immature view, your "<i><span style="font-style:italic">Consciousness is needed to reflect reality and to
assume some reflections as information</span></i>." is a human informatics
problem, while the black hole information is physical.<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12pt;text-indent:27pt;line-height:17pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Karl's
prediction is a great encouragement to us and will come true soon, let's be ready
to accept the prize next year or later.<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12pt;line-height:17pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Best wishes,<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Xueshan<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:10pt;line-height:16pt"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a><span> </span><<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a>><span> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of<span> <u></u><u></u></span></span></b><u></u>Krassimir Markov<u></u><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b><span> </span>Tuesday, October 6, 2020 10:18 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b><span> </span><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">yxs@pku.edu.cn</span></font></a>;
FIS Group <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b><span> </span>Re: [Fis] black hole and information<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:10pt;line-height:16pt"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Dear Xueshan,</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">I have only one
remark.<br>
The Nobel Prize is given to researchers but not to the Black hole and not to
any other object in the Cosmos!</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
Without observer there is no Black hole entropy, there is no information.<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">So, the consciousness
is needed to reflect reality and to assume some reflections as information.</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Friendly greetings</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Krassimir</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><a href="mailto:yxs@pku.edu.cn" title="yxs@pku.edu.cn" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#954f72" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(149,79,114)">Xueshan Yan</span></font></a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">Tuesday, October 06, 2020 3:37 PM<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">To:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#954f72" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(149,79,114)">FIS Group</span></font></a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></font></b><span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">[Fis] black hole and information<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:等线;color:black">Dear colleagues</span></font><font color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-family:等线;color:black">，</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:等线;color:black">This year's
Nobel Prize in physics goes to black hole research today. When the curvature of
space-time of a celestial body is so large that even light cannot escape from
its event horizon, we call it a black hole. I. Once a black hole is formed,
except for mass, angular momentum, and electric charge, all the previous
material properties as objects disappear; II. The horizon area of the black
hole is equal to its entropy (entropy equals negative information). These two
issues form a close relationship between the research of black hole and
information. The follow-up effect of this year's Nobel Prize in physics may
lead to further thinking on the information in the future by astrophysicists,
and lay a reverie foundation for the informational interpretation of matter
several years later.<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:等线;color:black">Best wishes and
health,<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:等线;color:black">Xueshan<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<hr size="4" width="100%" align="center">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
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</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(149,79,114)">Fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</span></font></a></span></font><font color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la
Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre <u></u><u></u><u></u>como<u></u><u></u><u></u> tratamos sus datos en el
siguiente enlace:<span> </span></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(149,79,114)">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</span></font></a></span></font><font color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
Recuerde que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja
desde la propia aplicacisn en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font color="black" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><br>
----------<u></u><u></u></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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</div>
<u></u><u></u>
<div id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#954f72" face="SimSun"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="90" height="33" id="m_-9218619684100155228gmail-m_-7871864062947660498_x0000_i1027" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo"></span></font></a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="#3d4d5a" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(61,77,90)">Този имейл е проверен за вируси от Avast.<span> </span><br>
</span></font><font color="black" face="SimSun"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:SimSun;color:black"><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72" face="Calibri"><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(149,79,114)">www.avast.com</span></font></a></span></font><font color="black" face="SimSun"><span style="font-family:SimSun;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<br>
<br>
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</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="等线"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:等线;color:black"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></font><font color="black" face="SimSun"><span style="font-family:SimSun;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">Fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</span></font></a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la
Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
siguiente enlace:<span> </span><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</span></font></a><br>
Recuerde que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja
desde la propia aplicacisn en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" target="_blank"><font color="#954f72"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://listas.unizar.es</span></font></a><br>
----------<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">_______________________________________________</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">Fis
mailing list</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="word-spacing:0px" target="_blank"><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(149,79,114)">Fis@listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br style="word-spacing:0px">
</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="word-spacing:0px" target="_blank"><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">----------</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">INFORMACIÓN
SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">Ud. recibe
este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad
de Zaragoza.</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">Puede
encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente
enlace:<span> </span></span></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" style="word-spacing:0px" target="_blank"><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(149,79,114)">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">Recuerde
que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la
propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/" style="word-spacing:0px" target="_blank"><font size="1" color="#954f72" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://listas.unizar.es</span></font></a></span></font><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="float:none;word-spacing:0px">----------</span></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<u></u><u></u><u></u></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Dino Buzzetti formerly</span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Department of Philosophy<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">,</span> University of Bologna</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"> </span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Dino Buzzetti formerly</span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Department of Philosophy University of Bologna</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"> currently</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Fondazione per le Scienze Religiose Giovanni XXIII</span><div style="display:inline"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">via san Vitale, 114 I-40125 Bologna BO</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">e-mail: </span><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">dino.buzzetti [at] </span><a href="http://gmail.com" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif" target="_blank">gmail.com</a> </div><div dir="ltr"> <span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">buzzetti [at] </span><a href="http://fscire.it" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif" target="_blank">fscire.it</a> <font size="1"> </font></div><div>Web: <a href="http://web.dfc.unibo.it/buzzetti/" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif" target="_blank">http://web.dfc.unibo.it/buzzetti</a> </div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.fscire.it/index.php/it/ricercatori/dino-buzzetti-2/" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">http://www.fscire.it/index.php/it/ricercatori/dino-buzzetti-2</a><div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;display:inline"> </div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br><br><br></span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>