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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Without wanting to take any special credit for insight, I agree
with Mark’s useful dualistic definition of information. If three additions
could be made – well – I think they could be considered:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:53.25pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>another way to solve the problem is to see
information in process terms, as a set of processes. An absolute definition of ‘information’
is thus not necessary;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:53.25pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>I much appreciate Mark’s formal association
of information and energy. I simply go one step further and focus on the actual
energy involved in a specific information process, and its changes;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:53.25pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>I have said, and I would not like it to be
totally forgotten, is that Mark’s General Theory of Information is, rather and at
the same time, a Theory of General Information. As I wrote on January 1, 2019,
this is not to be taken negatively. It is an extension, with which I believe
Mark agrees, of his General Theory of Information. I wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>I thus return
to Mark’s presentation and reformulate somewhat his key concept: meaning is the
foundation of all theories of information, including the General Theory of
Information (GTI). My prior suggestion of the concept of a Theory of General
Information (TGI) is not intended to diminish the value of the GTI; I consider
that the GTI and the TGI coexist dialectically. But Mark’s further point is
that “the General Theory of Information encompasses all existing information
theories only potentially”, and that accordingly one must have it and “a
variety of special information theories” also. If we accept this most
interesting point as a basis for discussion, then a further modification to
Mark’s concept suggests itself: the GTI he has defined is in fact a <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Meta-Theory </span></i>of Information, a theory of <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Theories </span></i>of Information. <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p>As I have frequently pointed out, however, there
is not and does not have to be an absolute separation between a theory and its
associated meta-theory, which coexist dialectically. There is an intriguing
parallel here with the approach of Wu Kun and his definition of the Philosophy
of Information as a <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Meta-Philosophy. </span></i>Comments
welcome.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>To advance the discussion, just a little movement is required on
the part of everyone . . . Thus, my statement that information emerged together
with the universe is not quite correct. I accordingly rephrase this to
acknowledge Krassimir’s point about the need for a conscious perceiver of the information.
One should say that what emerged was information in potential form, capable of
being understood as <i><span style='font-style:italic'>having been actualized</span></i>
once beings came into existence who were capable of such understanding, both of
the information (growth rings in trees) and of the processes that led to their
formation. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Thank you and best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Joseph <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Mark Burgin<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> mercredi, 23 septembre 2020
08:21<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Krassimir Markov<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] We have
principally opposite points of view.</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Dear Krassimir and other participants of
this discussion,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The problem you all encounter is caused
by the attempts to elaborate an absolute definition of information. However, it
is more efficient to use a different approach. The general theory of
information gives a parametric definition of information. Taking one parameter,
we obtain Krassimir's definition. Taking another parameter, we come to the
definition suggested by Pedro and Joseph.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>A similar situation exists in physics
where there different types of energy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Mark Burgin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=zwchr data-marker="__DIVIDER__">
</span></font></div>
<div data-marker="__HEADERS__">
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From: </span></font></b><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>"Krassimir
Markov" <markov@foibg.com><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent: </span></b>Tuesday, September 22, 2020
11:08:01 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>[Fis] We have principally
opposite points of view.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<span data-mce-style="font-size: large;" size=4>
<div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">
<div>
<div data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Calibri'; color: #000000;">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear Pedro and Joseph,<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'></span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span data-mce-style="font-size: large;" size=4>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Thank you for the
answers. <br>
They clear the situation.</span></span></font><font size=4 color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span data-mce-style="font-size: large;" size=4>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>We have principally
opposite points of view.<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'></span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span data-mce-style="font-size: large;" size=4>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Yours is that the
information exists independently of live creatures. <br>
“<span data-mce-style="color: #000080;"></span></font><font size=5 color=navy
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy'>In
the real world, information is co-emergent with the universe.” <span
data-mce-style="color: #000000;" color="#000000"></span></font><font size=5
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
</span></span>This is the modern understanding of God as Creator ( information
(0) )! <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'></span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span data-mce-style="font-size: large;" size=4>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>My point of view is
the opposite – without the live creatures, information does not exist. <br>
It exists only in the consciousness (personal or social)!<br>
It is subjective reaction of the incoming (external and/or internal)
reflections (data).<br>
</span></span></font><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<span data-mce-style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4 face=Calibri>
<div
data-mce-style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: 'Calibri'; font-weight: normal; color: #000000; font-style: normal; display: inline;">
<div data-mce-style="font: 10pt tahoma;">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>This way, we have
different systems of principles, as already I had shown.<br>
<br>
Friendly greetings</span></span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span data-mce-style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4 face=Calibri>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Krassimir</span></span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div data-mce-style="background: #f5f5f5;">
<div style='font-color:black' data-mce-style="font-color: black;">
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank"
title="pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
data-mce-href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">Pedro C. Marijuan</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Tuesday, September 22,
2020 2:59 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" title="fis@listas.unizar.es"
data-mce-href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Re:
[Fis] a simple question. A simple (?) answer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div
data-mce-style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: 'Calibri'; font-weight: normal; color: #000000; font-style: normal; display: inline;">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear List,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Responding to the last
exchanges, first, it is always a pleasure reading Karl's texts, irrespective
that one can agree, disagree or partially coincide with the conceptual edifice
he is elegantly describing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>About Joseph's below,
thanks for clarifying Krassimir's question--am glad you are upholding the 1st
Principle. But following your thought, my mention to the life cycle as a
complementary zeroth principle seems unnecessary, or even
counterproductive--what would you think?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Regarding Stan's
comment, on the basic characteristics of life, apart of their general interest,
I tend to disagree with his " information must make a difference to the
promotion of any dissipative structure. (Here we arrive in physics!)"
Would you say the same when talking about the basic processing structure of a
computer digital info? Do you need physics for the Turing Machine or for the
von Neumann architecture? I connect the disagreement with a relatively similar
statement from Bruno: "eventually Nature itself is a pattern emerging from
the relation between universal numbers; some playing the role of environment
for others." You take as (relatively?) solved one the biggest physical
enigmas.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>And to continue the
disagreements, Loet's: "Reducing society to a meta-biology reduces the
social sciences to a commentary. They can be sui generis. The application of
biological systems theory to society (sociobiology) to be resisted. For
example, we don't wish the strongest to be the fittest. The rule of law cannot
be reduced to biology." I think you misunderstood my comment and are
shooting at a straw-man.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>When I wrote
"sharing a life-cycle (& its experiential load--a culture for
instance) as a powerful level-playing field in social and biological
communication" can be excellently clarified by a recent movie of Denis
Villeneuve (2016) "ARRIVAL". An enormous spacial ship arrives,
the occupants of which are finally visualized as enormous octopus within a
gigantic tank. How could humans communicate with them when everything about
their respective forms of life (my "life cycle & experiential
load") is completely unknown for each other??? The development of
the movie is great from the communication point of view... It is a problem not
so distant from the frequent uncommunication between human cultures and even
between practitioners of different scientific disciplines (ehem). In any
case, anyone reading the 10 info principles could hardly raise the shibboleth
of reductionism. These principles visit a succession of the main
information halls and just try to open a few strategic doors between
them. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Putting it
differently: the 10 info principles would minimally describe the foundations of
the bizarre difference between our planet and the other known planets. The inner
workings of the incredible biosphere & sociosphere herein, which seem to be
grounded on multiple new kinds of communicative relationships. Whether the
common "physical stuff" on which all existence depends is also
involved in playing info games appears beyond my personal expertise (but am not
against this kind of quest!). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>All the best<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>--Pedro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>El 21/09/2020 a las
17:48, Joseph Brenner escribió:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'
cite="mid:D21CB4C837FA42B7992EFCF2AC238670@LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=navy><span data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Dear Krassimir, Dear All,</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=navy><span data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>1. Perhaps somewhat
unexpectedly, I have concluded that this is a very good question, to which I
propose the following tentative answer. In the real world, information is
co-emergent with the universe. Today, no real informational event, that is, no
event, takes place without reference to an earlier state. For those who, like me,
do not believe that our current universe is expanding from a singularity, the
problem of the apparent disparity in the size of the universe at the end of an
expansion cycle and the start of a contraction cycle is solved in the Cyclic
Conformal Cosmology of Penrose. Even if the simplistic ‘Big Bang’ model of the
universe is retained, which, I repeat, I think it should not be, the start of
Krassimir’s series is not information (0) but information (n), where n is an
obviously very large but transfinite, not infinite, number.</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>In other words, the
concept of an information (0) is, to all intents and purposes, a completely
idealized construction. It has the value, for the purposes of this discussion,
of being a further demonstration of the failure of classical arguments,
scientific or philosophical, based on an infinite logical regress to a limit,
0, 1, or ‘infinity’, as the case may be.</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Therefore, we may retain
Pedro’s First Principle with the understanding that the movement is always
between n and n+1, since n (0) is inaccessible. </span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>2. The second point I
would like to raise relates to the requirement, which I have accepted without
thinking about it that information refers to a distinction on an <i><span
data-mce-style="font-style: italic;"><span style='font-style:italic'>adjacent </span></span></i>difference.</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Why adjacent? Any
difference of which I become conscious has become ‘adjacent’, otherwise I could
not make a distinction on it. In other words, any relations I may have to
non-adjacent differences are purely epistemological. Is this correct? Is there
a direct relation between information (n) and information (n+2)? I conclude
there is not, and Pedro’s Principle stands as written. QED.</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Thank you and best wishes,</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Joseph </span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'> </span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: small;" size=2 face=Arial
color=navy><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: small;" size=2 face=Arial
color=navy><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial; color: navy;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
I still do not agree with the first principle.</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>Joseph had written and Pedro had confirmed that :<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'></span></span><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: small;"
size=2 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;">“information
(2) is produced in MAKING a distinction on an adjacent difference = information
(1)</span></span></span></font><span data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;"
size=4 face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><br>
<br>
In other words, information (n) is created from information (n-1).<br>
<br>
This is simple series which we may write as follow:</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>information (0) –> information (1) –> ... –> information
(n-1) –> information (n) –> ....</span></span></font></span><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><font color=black><span style='color:black'><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span></span>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>A Simple Question:</span></span></font></span><span data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;"
size=4 face=Calibri color=black><font color=black><span style='color:black'><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span></span>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>Who creates information (0) ?</span></span></font></span><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><font color=black><span style='color:black'><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span></span>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>Friendly greetings</span></span></font></span><span data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;"
size=4 face=Calibri color=black><font color=black><span style='color:black'><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span></span>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>Krassimir</span></span></font></span><span data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;"
size=4 face=Calibri color=black><font color=black><span style='color:black'><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span></span>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'></span></span> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: large;" size=4
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;"
size=2 face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: black;">
<div style='font-color:black' data-mce-style="font-color: black;">
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></span></font></b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'></span><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; color: black;"> <a
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank"
title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" data-mce-href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">Joseph
Brenner</a> </span></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:whitesmoke' data-mce-style="background: whitesmoke;"><b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></span></font></span></b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> Friday, September 18, 2020 11:19 PM</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:whitesmoke' data-mce-style="background: whitesmoke;"><b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></span></font></span></b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" target="_blank"
title="markov@foibg.com" data-mce-href="mailto:markov@foibg.com">'Krassimir
Markov'</a> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:whitesmoke' data-mce-style="background: whitesmoke;"><b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></span></font></span></b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"
title="fis@listas.unizar.es" data-mce-href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</a>
</span></span></font></span><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:whitesmoke' data-mce-style="background: whitesmoke;"><b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></span></font></span></b><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;" size=2
face=Tahoma color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; color: black;"><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> RE: [Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles. Information as Process</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;" size=3
face=Calibri color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: calibri; color: black;"><font
size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> </span></span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: small;"
size=2 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Dear Pedro, Dear Krassimir,</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: small;"
size=2 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>For me, the problem is
clearly a result of using a common noun, information, to describe a complex
process rather than a participle form – informationing. Then, “information IS a
distinction” should be replaced by “information (2) is produced in MAKING a
distinction on an adjacent difference = information (1). Then, of course the 1<sup>st</sup>
principle is recursive, but correctly so! </span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: small;"
size=2 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Best,</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: small;"
size=2 face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color=navy><span
data-mce-style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Lucida sans unicode'; color: navy;"><font
size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Joseph</span></span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
data-mce-style="color: black; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: medium;"
size=3 face="Times New Roman" color=black><span data-mce-style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span><span data-mce-style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: small;"
size=2 face=Arial color=navy></p>
</span>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Pedro C. Marijuán<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank"
data-mce-href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank"
data-mce-href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>------------------------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<div id=DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;
border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'
data-mce-style="border-top: #d3d4de 1px solid; color: #000000;">
<tr>
<td width=46 style='width:34.45pt;border:none;padding:11.25pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'
data-mce-style="width: 55px; padding-top: 18px;">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank"
data-mce-href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"><span
style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29
id="_x0000_i1027"
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"
type=cite cite="mid:96338D11A974426FA8B65D45CD3FC1D0@LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB"<u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<u1:shapedefaults u2:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<u1:shapelayout u3:ext="edit">
<u1:idmap u3:ext="edit" data="1"/>
</u1:shapelayout>
</xml><![endif]--> data-mce-style="height: 29px; width: 46px;">
</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=392 style='width:294.25pt;border:none;padding:10.65pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'
data-mce-style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; width: 470px; color: #41424e; padding-top: 17px; line-height: 18px;">
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:11.25pt'><font size=1 color="#41424e"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#41424E'>Libre
de virus. <a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank"
data-mce-href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
data-mce-style="color: #4453ea;"><font color="#4453ea"><span
style='color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
Fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis<br>
----------<br>
INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la
Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
siguiente enlace:
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas<br>
Recuerde que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja
desde la propia aplicacisn en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
http://listas.unizar.es<br>
----------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
Fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis<br>
----------<br>
INFORMACI</span></font><font color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:
Tahoma;color:black'>�</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>N SOBRE PROTECCI</span></font><font
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>�</span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>N DE DATOS
DE CAR</span></font><font color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:
Tahoma;color:black'>�</span></font><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>CTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la
Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la informaci</span></font><font color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>�</span></font><font color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>n sobre como tratamos
sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas<br>
Recuerde que si est</span></font><font color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>�</span></font><font color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'> suscrito a una lista
voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci</span></font><font
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>�</span></font><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>n en el
momento en que lo desee.<br>
http://listas.unizar.es<br>
----------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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