<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
</head>
<body>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">>This way, we have different
systems of principles</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">Which leads me to wonder if we are
not talking about two different things here:</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">- The distinctions made by
distinction-making systems (humans, amoebas, robots...)</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">- The discontinuities, structures
and dynamics that (unless we are solipsists) distinctions can be
made about.</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">If we insist on including all this
in the concept of 'information', then my comment to my daughter
that ice creams are available in that cafe is the same
'information stuff' as the atomic structure of the ice crystals
in those ice creams. I find it difficult to put any workable
boundaries around such a concept.</font><font size="4"
face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">The experiments being done at CERN
and the development of better adhesives are both aspects of
research into 'physical stuff', but we don't feel the need to
describe or define them in that way.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">We have invested a lot of effort in
expanding our concept of information to be maximally inclusive,
and the informal use of the word is also inclusive. And no doubt
we have learned a lot taking this approach. But maybe it would
be useful to spend some time carving 'information' at its
joints. We run the risk that we end up without a unitary entity,
but we might gain a more useful set of distinctions and
vocabulary, and a new task to describe the interactions between
the things that we distinguish. Perhaps it is the sense of
ownership that different tribes of academics have over the
concept of information that prevents this from happening. They
all want their sense of the word to be included in the
portmanteau.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri">Dai<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/09/2020 20:08, Krassimir Markov
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:44579D0CF7B94DA0990A5AEFAD52F3C6@VaioMarkov">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
#000000">
<div><font size="4">Dear Pedro and Joseph,<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Thank you for the answers. <br>
They clear the situation.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">We have principally opposite points of
view.<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Yours is that the information exists
independently of live creatures. <br>
“<font style="COLOR: #000080">In the real world,
information is co-emergent with the universe.” <font
color="#000000"><br>
</font></font>This is the modern understanding of God as
Creator ( information (0) )! <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">My point of view is the opposite – without
the live creatures, information does not exist. <br>
It exists only in the consciousness (personal or social)!<br>
It is subjective reaction of the incoming (external and/or
internal) reflections (data).<br>
</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none;
FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri">This way, we have
different systems of principles, as already I had
shown.<br>
<br>
Friendly greetings</font></div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri">Krassimir</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
title="pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
moz-do-not-send="true">Pedro C. Marijuan</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 22, 2020 2:59 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es"
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] a simple question. A
simple (?) answer.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none;
FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear List,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Responding to the last
exchanges, first, it is always a pleasure reading Karl's
texts, irrespective that one can agree, disagree or
partially coincide with the conceptual edifice he is
elegantly describing.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">About Joseph's below, thanks
for clarifying Krassimir's question--am glad you are
upholding the 1st Principle. But following your thought,
my mention to the life cycle as a complementary zeroth
principle seems unnecessary, or even
counterproductive--what would you think?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Regarding Stan's comment, on
the basic characteristics of life, apart of their general
interest, I tend to disagree with his " information must
make a difference to the promotion of any dissipative
structure. (Here we arrive in physics!)" Would you say the
same when talking about the basic processing structure of
a computer digital info? Do you need physics for the
Turing Machine or for the von Neumann architecture? I
connect the disagreement with a relatively similar
statement from Bruno: "eventually Nature itself is a
pattern emerging from the relation between universal
numbers; some playing the role of environment for others."
You take as (relatively?) solved one the biggest physical
enigmas.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">And to continue the
disagreements, Loet's: "Reducing society to a meta-biology
reduces the social sciences to a commentary. They can be
sui generis. The application of biological systems theory
to society (sociobiology) to be resisted. For example, we
don't wish the strongest to be the fittest. The rule of
law cannot be reduced to biology." I think you
misunderstood my comment and are shooting at a straw-man.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">When I wrote "sharing a
life-cycle (& its experiential load--a culture for
instance) as a powerful level-playing field in social and
biological communication" can be excellently clarified by
a recent movie of Denis Villeneuve (2016) "ARRIVAL". An
enormous spacial ship arrives, the occupants of which are
finally visualized as enormous octopus within a gigantic
tank. How could humans communicate with them when
everything about their respective forms of life (my "life
cycle & experiential load") is completely unknown for
each other??? The development of the movie is great from
the communication point of view... It is a problem not so
distant from the frequent uncommunication between human
cultures and even between practitioners of different
scientific disciplines (ehem). In any case, anyone
reading the 10 info principles could hardly raise the
shibboleth of reductionism. These principles visit a
succession of the main information halls and just try to
open a few strategic doors between them. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Putting it differently: the 10
info principles would minimally describe the foundations
of the bizarre difference between our planet and the other
known planets. The inner workings of the incredible
biosphere & sociosphere herein, which seem to be
grounded on multiple new kinds of communicative
relationships. Whether the common "physical stuff" on
which all existence depends is also involved in playing
info games appears beyond my personal expertise (but am
not against this kind of quest!). <br>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">All the best</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">--Pedro</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 21/09/2020 a las 17:48,
Joseph Brenner escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D21CB4C837FA42B7992EFCF2AC238670@LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB"
type="cite">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11
(filtered medium)">
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<style>
<!--
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
panose-1:2 11 6 2 3 5 4 2 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.msonormal, li.msonormal, div.msonormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.msohyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.msohyperlinkfollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
pre
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.emailstyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:arial;
color:navy;}
span.emailstyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:arial;
color:navy;}
@page section1
{size:595.3pt 841.9pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.section1
{page:section1;}
-->
</style>
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color="navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans unicode";
COLOR: navy" lang="EN-GB">Dear Krassimir, Dear
All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color="navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans unicode";
COLOR: navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">1. Perhaps somewhat
unexpectedly, I have concluded that this is
a very good question, to which I propose the
following tentative answer. In the real
world, information is co-emergent with the
universe. Today, no real informational
event, that is, no event, takes place
without reference to an earlier state. For
those who, like me, do not believe that our
current universe is expanding from a
singularity, the problem of the apparent
disparity in the size of the universe at the
end of an expansion cycle and the start of a
contraction cycle is solved in the Cyclic
Conformal Cosmology of Penrose. Even if the
simplistic ‘Big Bang’ model of the universe
is retained, which, I repeat, I think it
should not be, the start of Krassimir’s
series is not information (0) but
information (n), where n is an obviously
very large but transfinite, not infinite,
number.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">In other words, the
concept of an information (0) is, to all
intents and purposes, a completely idealized
construction. It has the value, for the
purposes of this discussion, of being a
further demonstration of the failure of
classical arguments, scientific or
philosophical, based on an infinite logical
regress to a limit, 0, 1, or ‘infinity’, as
the case may be.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">Therefore, we may retain
Pedro’s First Principle with the
understanding that the movement is always
between n and n+1, since n (0) is
inaccessible. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">2. The second point I
would like to raise relates to the
requirement, which I have accepted without
thinking about it that information refers to
a distinction on an <i><span
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">adjacent </span></i>difference.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">Why adjacent? Any
difference of which I become conscious has
become ‘adjacent’, otherwise I could not
make a distinction on it. In other words,
any relations I may have to non-adjacent
differences are purely epistemological. Is
this correct? Is there a direct relation
between information (n) and information
(n+2)? I conclude there is not, and Pedro’s
Principle stands as written. QED.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">Thank you and best
wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">Joseph <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"
color="navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: navy"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"
color="navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: navy"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
I still do not agree with the first
principle.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black">Joseph
had written and Pedro had confirmed that :<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans
Unicode" color="navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida sans
unicode"; COLOR: navy">“information (2)
is produced in MAKING a distinction on an
adjacent difference = information (1)</span></font><font
size="4" face="Calibri" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY:
calibri; COLOR: black"><br>
<br>
In other words, information (n) is created
from information (n-1).<br>
<br>
This is simple series which we may write as
follow:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black">information
(0) –> information (1) –> ... –>
information (n-1) –> information (n)
–> ....</span></font><font size="4"
face="Calibri" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY:
calibri; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black">A Simple
Question:</span></font><font size="4"
face="Calibri" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY:
calibri; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black">Who
creates information (0) ?</span></font><font
size="4" face="Calibri" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY:
calibri; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black">Friendly
greetings</span></font><font size="4"
face="Calibri" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY:
calibri; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black">Krassimir</span></font><font
size="4" face="Calibri" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY:
calibri; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></span></font> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Calibri"
color="black"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt;
FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-color: black">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:
whitesmoke"><b><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR:
black">From:</span></font></b><font
size="2" face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; COLOR: black"> <a
title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Joseph
Brenner</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:
whitesmoke"><b><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR:
black">Sent:</span></font></b><font
size="2" face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; COLOR: black"> Friday,
September 18, 2020 11:19 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:
whitesmoke"><b><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR:
black">To:</span></font></b><font
size="2" face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; COLOR: black"> <a
title="markov@foibg.com"
href="mailto:markov@foibg.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">'Krassimir
Markov'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:
whitesmoke"><b><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR:
black">Cc:</span></font></b><font
size="2" face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; COLOR: black"> <a
title="fis@listas.unizar.es"
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
moz-do-not-send="true">fis</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:
whitesmoke"><b><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR:
black">Subject:</span></font></b><font
size="2" face="Tahoma" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
tahoma; COLOR: black"> RE: [Fis] Fwd:
The 10 Principles. Information as
Process<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
face="Calibri" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
calibri; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">Dear Pedro, Dear
Krassimir,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">For me, the problem is
clearly a result of using a common noun,
information, to describe a complex process
rather than a participle form –
informationing. Then, “information IS a
distinction” should be replaced by
“information (2) is produced in MAKING a
distinction on an adjacent difference =
information (1). Then, of course the 1<sup>st</sup>
principle is recursive, but correctly so! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida
Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Lucida sans unicode"; COLOR:
navy" lang="EN-GB">Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times
New Roman" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </span></font><font
size="2" face="Arial" color="navy"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial;
COLOR: navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:
center" align="center"><font size="3"
face="Times New Roman" color="black"><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"
lang="EN-US">
<hr tabindex="-1" width="100%" size="2"
align="center"> </span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style="BORDER-TOP: #d3d4de 1px solid; COLOR:
#000000">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="WIDTH: 55px; PADDING-TOP: 18px"><a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><img
style="HEIGHT: 29px; WIDTH: 46px" alt=""
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="46" height="29"></a></td>
<td style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,
helvetica, sans-serif; WIDTH: 470px; COLOR:
#41424e; PADDING-TOP: 17px; LINE-HEIGHT: 18px">Libre
de virus. <a style="COLOR: #4453ea"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.avast.com</a>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p>
</p>
<hr>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo
gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre como tratamos sus
datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud.
puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicacisn en el momento
en que lo desee.<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
----------
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a>
----------
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-----------------------------------------
Professor David (Dai) Griffiths
SKYPE: daigriffiths
Phones (please don't leave voice mail)
UK Mobile +44 (0)7491151559
Spanish Mobile: + 34 687955912
email
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com">dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com</a></pre>
</body>
</html>