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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Dear Krassimir, Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>1. Perhaps somewhat unexpectedly, I have concluded that this is a
very good question, to which I propose the following tentative answer. In the
real world, information is co-emergent with the universe. Today, no real
informational event, that is, no event, takes place without reference to an
earlier state. For those who, like me, do not believe that our current universe
is expanding from a singularity, the problem of the apparent disparity in the size
of the universe at the end of an expansion cycle and the start of a contraction
cycle is solved in the Cyclic Conformal Cosmology of Penrose. Even if the simplistic
‘Big Bang’ model of the universe is retained, which, I repeat, I
think it should not be, the start of Krassimir’s series is not information
(0) but information (n), where n is an obviously very large but transfinite,
not infinite, number.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>In other words, the concept of an information (0) is, to all
intents and purposes, a completely idealized construction. It has the value,
for the purposes of this discussion, of being a further demonstration of the
failure of classical arguments, scientific or philosophical, based on an
infinite logical regress to a limit, 0, 1, or ‘infinity’, as the
case may be.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Therefore, we may retain Pedro’s First Principle with the
understanding that the movement is always between n and n+1, since n (0) is
inaccessible. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>2. The second point I would like to raise relates to the
requirement, which I have accepted without thinking about it that information
refers to a distinction on an <i><span style='font-style:italic'>adjacent </span></i>difference.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Why adjacent? Any difference of which I become conscious has become
‘adjacent’, otherwise I could not make a distinction on it. In
other words, any relations I may have to non-adjacent differences are purely
epistemological. Is this correct? Is there a direct relation between
information (n) and information (n+2)? I conclude there is not, and Pedro’s
Principle stands as written. QED.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Thank you and best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Joseph <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
I still do not agree with the first principle.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Joseph had written and
Pedro had confirmed that :<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>“information
(2) is produced in MAKING a distinction on an adjacent difference = information
(1)</span></font><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><br>
<br>
In other words, information (n) is created from information (n-1).<br>
<br>
This is simple series which we may write as follow:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>information (0)
–> information (1) –> ... –> information (n-1)
–> information (n) –> ....</span></font><font size=4
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>A Simple Question:</span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Who creates
information (0) ?</span></font><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Friendly greetings</span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Krassimir</span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">Joseph
Brenner</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Friday, September 18,
2020 11:19 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" title="markov@foibg.com">'Krassimir Markov'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> RE:
[Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles. Information as Process<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Dear Pedro, Dear Krassimir,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>For me, the problem is clearly a result of using a common noun,
information, to describe a complex process rather than a participle form
– informationing. Then, “information IS a distinction” should
be replaced by “information (2) is produced in MAKING a distinction on an
adjacent difference = information (1). Then, of course the 1<sup>st</sup>
principle is recursive, but correctly so! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Krassimir Markov<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> vendredi, 18 septembre 2020
21:40<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> FIS<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] Fwd: The 10
Principles</span></font><font color=black><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear Pedro,</span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>I still not agree with
the first principle.<br>
In this form it is recursive!</span></font><font size=4 color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Information needs
itself to became information, because difference could not be distinguished
without information.<br>
In this form, the first principle sound like this:</span></font><font size=4
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Information is
distinction of information ! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Sorry!</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Friendly greetings</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Krassimir</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" title="pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">Pedro
C. Marijuan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Friday, September 18,
2020 9:01 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es">'fis'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Re:
[Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear All,<br>
Thanks to Jose Javier for his comments. Regarding the loop you mention about distinction,
you are right, but this is a very characteristic of life (see that Maturana and
Varela already said something pretty similar in their Tree of Knowledge). In
the other biological principles that follow (below) I try to clarify that
notion in several directions, particularly concerning signaling systems, a
concept which was completely ignored until well in the 1990s. Your second
comment may be partially responded looking at those further principles dealing
with the symbolic communication via language and the social narratives, not far
from what you have pointed. Thus I include the whole principles herein.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>1. Information is distinction
on an <i><span style='font-style:italic'>adjacent </span></i>difference. </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>2. Information processes
consist in organized action upon differences collected onto structures,
patterns, sequences, messages, or flows.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>3. Information flows are
essential organizers of life's self-production process –the life
cycle– anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying energy
flows.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>4. Proto-phenomena of meaning,
knowledge, and cognition (& intelligence) emerge via signaling systems of
living cells, fully developed in the action/perception cycle of central nervous
systems.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>5. Information/communication
exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological
organization at all scales.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>6. It is symbolic language what
conveys the essential communication exchanges of individuals —and
constitutes the core of human "social nature."</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>7. Human information can be
transformed into efficient knowledge by following the "knowledge
instinct", further enhanced and delimited by collectively applying
rigorous methodologies.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>8. Human cognitive limitations
are partially overcome via "knowledge ecologies", where knowledge
circulates and recombines socially in a continuous actualization that involves
"creative destruction" of theories, practices, and disciplines.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>9. Narratives become
encapsulated forms of “natural intelligence”, tailored to capture
collective attention and memory, and essential for the cohesion of social, political,
and economic structures.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:14.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>10. Information science
proposes a new, radical vision on how information and knowledge surround
individual lives, with profound consequences for scientific-philosophical
practice and for social governance.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Briefly referring to the other discussion
track (Christophe), I quite agree with situating the origins of (genuine)
meaning with living beings, but have some trouble with "constraints"
when generally applied to biological cognition. I think they may be more useful
in other fields (originated in kinematics, they become more and more volatile
as used in Dynamic Systems Theory, and similarly weakened when going from AI to
biological cognition). For instance, given 3,000 genes in Ecoli,
organized in mixed clusters of fiendish complexity, how do you establish
meaningful constraints? Or can even attribute separate "functions"?
You may see in DOI:<a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002?_sg%5B0%5D=nH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8urom6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w">
10.1016/j.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002</a><span
class=nova-e-linknova-e-link--color-inheritnova-e-link--theme-decorated>
</span><span
class=nova-e-linknova-e-link--color-inheritnova-e-link--theme-decorated0>the
very dimensions of this ontology problem.</span><a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002?_sg%5B0%5D=nH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8urom6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w"><br>
</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Regarding Marcus' comment on life as
imprecisely defined (and whether viruses or Gaia are 'alive'), the fundamental
issue in natural sciences is "explaining" rather than defining. And
fortunately the advancement in our explanations of life in last decades has
been fantastic. Life can now be characterized in every basic aspect with
amazing depth. One cannot give a precise definition of life, but one can
provide a list of essential characteristics, and at the center are the
informational ones. Empirically, the point is that information appears to be so
ingrained in the molecular organization of life that scores of new
bio-disciplines have been recently launched around it: bioinformatics,
bioinformation, biocomputation, all the "omic" fields, signaling
science, etc. Biosemiotics could be included too, but Hélas, most
biosemioticians continue to "read" the DNA meaning via the genetic
code, rather than exploring the "signals" abduced from the
environment and "distinctionally worked out and transcribed in genes--from
which ultimately "meaning" emerges. About viruses concretely, they
have been essential in the origins of eukaryotic complexity and in the dynamic
balance of marine and terrestrial ecosystems... irrespective on how we consider
their degree of "aliveness". And finally "non comment"
about some (baiting?) expressions in your previous reply. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>I see right now the careful "review"
by Loet: better for a next occasion!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Best--Pedro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>PS. The Three Messages per Week are counted
following the international business week (from Monday to Sunday included).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre cols=72><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Pedro C. Marijuán<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>------------------------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<div id=DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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