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<p>I am entirely in agreement with Loet that</p>
<p>"As you know, I am against this program. Reducing society to a
meta-biology reduces the social sciences to a commentary. They can
be <i>sui generis. </i>The application of biological systems
theory to society (sociobiology) to be resisted. ... The rule of
law cannot be reduced to biology."</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I am still tempted to think that there are patterns
that connect across different fields. For example, since the
introduction of social media something has happened to patterns of
communication, to shared meaning making, and to politics. I would
think that, in addition to the social phenomena which lead people
to behave in one way or another in a particular culture or
society, there are also relevant rules that we can discover about
the dynamics of communication which are applicable in a wider
context. For example the ideas of variety management,
amplification and attenuation help in understanding the control
structures which different societies create (whether this is a
team of Facebook moderators, or the Great Firewall of China). If
this is not the case, then we are forced to believe that these
social changes are unrelated to the development of mobile
computing, which I don't find credible.</p>
<p>Mapping these kinds of connections was the ambition behind the
development of those involved in cybernetics and their fellow
travelers. To me, this is a more acceptable program than "Reducing
society to a meta-biology".</p>
<p>Dai<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/09/2020 09:41, Loet Leydesdorff
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:emce933876-8035-4e97-bcaf-c58dfcfef4fc@pc2014">
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<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419">
<blockquote
cite="76c46e69-0785-6767-011c-e66eafbe110e@aragon.es"
type="cite" class="cite2">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:emc25c37af-1f34-47cd-8eab-fb8f0e30780e@pc2014"
class="cite">
<div>
<div id="xca2c22c2beb146f0940cb13fdc5ac4a1">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:0.5in;line-height:14pt;"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span
lang="EN-GB"><i>This may be the case for biological
evolution, but communication technologies enable
us to include non-adjacent distinctions. </i><o:p
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
--Nope. As said above, we may only imply that those media or
techno info are non-local only AFTER THEIR CARRIERS HAVE
"TOUCHED" OUR RECEPTORS and we have built thousands and
thousands of micro-distinctions flowing bottom-up and top-down
that produce a meaning and finally they make us say, "oh, yes,
this is non-local info about the US politics". It may take
barely an instant, and all of those processes are transparent
for us.</blockquote>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419">Dear Pedro, </div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419"><br>
</div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419">It seems to me that you reason most
about information carriers, but not about information. The
carriers can also transform the information. For example, the
receptors can be expected to filter.</div>
<blockquote
cite="76c46e69-0785-6767-011c-e66eafbe110e@aragon.es"
type="cite" class="cite2">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:emc25c37af-1f34-47cd-8eab-fb8f0e30780e@pc2014"
class="cite">
<div>
<div id="xca2c22c2beb146f0940cb13fdc5ac4a1">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;line-height:14pt;"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
[...]<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:emc25c37af-1f34-47cd-8eab-fb8f0e30780e@pc2014"
class="cite">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;line-height:14pt;"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span
lang="EN-GB">By the way, curiously "channel" in the
Shanonian scheme represents also that which brings
information to the adjacency of the receiver. <o:p
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:0.5in;line-height:14pt;"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span
lang="EN-GB">The commonality exhibits, in my
opinion, the mathematical character. Once one
abstracts from materiality, a mathematical
definition becomes unavoidable. Only math (and
logic) can be used across domains. Do you have such
a definition, equivalent to the Shannon H?</span><o:p
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
--Interesting, but do you think the Shannonian metrics is the
only thing in common?</blockquote>
There is a number of these measures. Shannon-type is relatively
simple and elaborate. <i>Essentia non sint multiplicanda. </i>The
alternatives are not essentially different.</div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419"><br>
</div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419">
<blockquote
cite="76c46e69-0785-6767-011c-e66eafbe110e@aragon.es"
type="cite" class="cite2">But my point revolves about a better
understanding of sharing a life-cycle (& its experiential
load--a culture for instance) as a powerful level-playing
field in social and biological communication. It dissolves
eons of complexity.</blockquote>
As you know, I am against this program. Reducing society to a
meta-biology reduces the social sciences to a commentary. They
can be <i>sui generis. </i>The application of biological
systems theory to society (sociobiology) to be resisted. For
example, we don't wish the strongest to be the fittest. The rule
of law cannot be reduced to biology.</div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419"><br>
</div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419">Best, </div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419">Loet</div>
<div id="xbbbecd113fb2419"><br>
</div>
<br>
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