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<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear Pedro,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I still not agree with the first principle.<BR>In this form it
is recursive!<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Information needs itself to became information, because
difference could not be distinguished without information.<BR>In this form, the
first principle sound like this:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Information is distinction of information !
<BR></DIV></FONT>
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<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Calibri>Sorry!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Calibri>Friendly greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Calibri>Krassimir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">Pedro C. Marijuan</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 18, 2020 9:01 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">'fis'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>Dear
All,<BR>Thanks to Jose Javier for his comments. Regarding the loop you mention
about distinction, you are right, but this is a very characteristic of life (see
that Maturana and Varela already said something pretty similar in their Tree of
Knowledge). In the other biological principles that follow (below) I try
to clarify that notion in several directions, particularly concerning signaling
systems, a concept which was completely ignored until well in the 1990s. Your
second comment may be partially responded looking at those further principles
dealing with the symbolic communication via language and the social narratives,
not far from what you have pointed. Thus I include the whole principles
herein.<BR>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">1. Information is distinction on an <I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">adjacent </I>difference. <SPAN
style="COLOR: red"></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2. Information processes consist in organized
action upon differences collected onto structures, patterns, sequences,
messages, or flows.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">3. Information flows are essential organizers
of life's self-production process –the life cycle– anticipating, shaping, and
mixing up with the accompanying energy flows.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">4. Proto-phenomena of meaning, knowledge, and
cognition (& intelligence) emerge via signaling systems of living cells,
fully developed in the action/perception cycle of central nervous
systems.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">5. Information/communication exchanges among
adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organization at all
scales.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">6. It is symbolic language what conveys the
essential communication exchanges of individuals —and constitutes the core of
human "social nature."</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">7. Human information can be transformed into
efficient knowledge by following the "knowledge instinct", further enhanced and
delimited by collectively applying rigorous methodologies.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">8. Human cognitive limitations are partially
overcome via "knowledge ecologies", where knowledge circulates and recombines
socially in a continuous actualization that involves "creative destruction" of
theories, practices, and disciplines.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">9. Narratives become encapsulated forms of
“natural intelligence”, tailored to capture collective attention and memory, and
essential for the cohesion of social, political, and economic
structures.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; tab-stops: 382.75pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">10. Information science proposes a new,
radical vision on how information and knowledge surround individual lives, with
profound consequences for scientific-philosophical practice and for social
governance.</SPAN></P><BR>
<P>Briefly referring to the other discussion track (Christophe), I quite agree
with situating the origins of (genuine) meaning with living beings, but have
some trouble with "constraints" when generally applied to biological cognition.
I think they may be more useful in other fields (originated in kinematics, they
become more and more volatile as used in Dynamic Systems Theory, and similarly
weakened when going from AI to biological cognition). For instance, given
3,000 genes in Ecoli, organized in mixed clusters of fiendish complexity, how do
you establish meaningful constraints? Or can even attribute separate
"functions"? You may see in DOI:<A
class="nova-e-link nova-e-link--color-inherit
nova-e-link--theme-decorated"
href="https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002?_sg%5B0%5D=nH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8urom6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w">
10.1016/j.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002</A><SPAN
class="nova-e-link
nova-e-link--color-inherit nova-e-link--theme-decorated">
</SPAN><SPAN
class="nova-e-link nova-e-link--color-inherit
nova-e-link--theme-decorated">the
very dimensions of this ontology problem.</SPAN><A
class="nova-e-link
nova-e-link--color-inherit nova-e-link--theme-decorated"
href="https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002?_sg%5B0%5D=nH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8urom6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w"><BR></A></P>
<P>Regarding Marcus' comment on life as imprecisely defined (and whether viruses
or Gaia are 'alive'), the fundamental issue in natural sciences is "explaining"
rather than defining. And fortunately the advancement in our explanations of
life in last decades has been fantastic. Life can now be characterized in every
basic aspect with amazing depth. One cannot give a precise definition of life,
but one can provide a list of essential characteristics, and at the center are
the informational ones. Empirically, the point is that information appears to be
so ingrained in the molecular organization of life that scores of new
bio-disciplines have been recently launched around it: bioinformatics,
bioinformation, biocomputation, all the "omic" fields, signaling science, etc.
Biosemiotics could be included too, but Hélas, most biosemioticians continue to
"read" the DNA meaning via the genetic code, rather than exploring the "signals"
abduced from the environment and "distinctionally worked out and transcribed in
genes--from which ultimately "meaning" emerges. About viruses concretely, they
have been essential in the origins of eukaryotic complexity and in the dynamic
balance of marine and terrestrial ecosystems... irrespective on how we consider
their degree of "aliveness". And finally "non comment" about some (baiting?)
expressions in your previous reply. <BR></P>
<P>I see right now the careful "review" by Loet: better for a next
occasion!<BR></P>
<P>Best--Pedro</P>
<P>PS. The Three Messages per Week are counted following the international
business week (from Monday to Sunday included).<BR></P><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</A>
------------------------------------------------- </PRE>
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