<div dir="auto">Marcus, Christophe,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If the abstract things that we imagine are inanimate, then it may be interesting to see logical primitives to contain parts of a proto-meaning.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Like the meaning of magnetism is eg the direction of the needle and the meaning of a coil, a spring, is what we call form stability, the meaning of information can be observed in groups of primitives while they team up during a reorder. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nice approach of both of you. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Karl </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Christophe Menant <<a href="mailto:christophe.menant@hotmail.fr">christophe.menant@hotmail.fr</a>> schrieb am Mi., 16. Sep. 2020, 18:22:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Regarding your concern about « meaning » in the inanimate let me highlight some work on that subject (<a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Farchive%2FMENMGF-2.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703044063&sdata=G1%2Fkmln%2FBlcS0dOD3cvX3rWI6cL8bP%2B0JfLMJTrkm4I%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://philpapers.org/archive/MENMGF-2.pdf</a>).
Also a 2020 update on a modeling of meaning generation (<a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Farchive%2FMENITA-7.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703054059&sdata=MozUVz2h%2FtaOvr6qw8HiN4Y%2Fx4EdZeYK5NPSJf%2Bd95Q%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://philpapers.org/archive/MENITA-7.pdf</a>)</div>
<div>Christophe <br>
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Le 16 sept. 2020 à 08:39, Marcus Abundis <<a href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">55mrcs@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Pedro,<br>
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<div>Sadly, Peirce never details Laws of Nature (1), he merely uses the notion as a trope to support his also-imprecise 'synechism' – so I can hardly re-reinterpret 'that which does not even exist'. Nor does Bateson detail his own notions of 'a pattern that
connects the cosmos' and a 'necessary unity', kin to Peirce's synechism. And neither does Korzybski specify multiple 'levels of abstraction' that would also tie to Peirce's synechism. THIS imprecision seems to be the habit . . . so I think most informed and
thoughtful readers would see this as an area still needing to be addressed.</div>
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<div>> . . . done putting together into the same sac fermions, genes, . . . <</div>
<div>What thoughtful person puts these things in the 'same sac' when they point to different 'levels' in a simple-to-complex cosmos. This comment, ignoring an obvious simple-to-complex cosmos, seems more about 'baiting an argument' rather than engaging in and
encouraging critical thought.</div>
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<div>>origins of meaning in the "animate" are automatically lost,<</div>
<div>I hope you understand simply repeating 'Life as the origin of meaning' as a mantra here on FIS does not make it true in other realms. This assumption seems to remain largely unexamined in FIS, such unexamined assumptions being unsuited to/discouraging
deeper exploration. Life itself remains *formally* undefined. Further, Life plainly relies on 'meaning-less'(?) inanimate factors noted in the Standard Model of particle physics and the periodic table. What happens to Life if 'inanimate' electrons suddenly
lost their charge? Or if proteins become denatured by inanimate means? There is no meaning in this? One has to wonder what you actually mean by 'meaning' if your claim vis-a-vis Life as meaning is to persist. Leaving this assumption unexamined makes further
exchanges on the matter a fool's errand.</div>
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<div>> . . . assume a pan-pysicalist-pan-psychist stance . . .<</div>
<div>I have no idea what you mean by this, but again it seems like another baiting comment, more about dismissing the offered view without actual critical thought. Or perhaps you are pointing to Force and Energy as 'inanimate' all-pervading (pan-) primitive
factors, each exhibiting a certain logic(s), at various and diverse levels? But I cannot say/see what you actually mean here as your comment seems vague.</div>
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<div>I am sorry to say simply 'baiting arguments' does not reach a level of discourse that I see as meriting a 'prize'. I will post on FIS further Informatic Principles only if it seems some closure is possible on prior points – as my position proceeds in a
step-wise manner, as with a simple-to-complex cosmos. Still, for those who are curious, more detail is available in the current DRAFT of a paper, which I regularly update/refine, found here:</div>
<div><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1mXpqH596Ohr9_Rt7Yf7pkK5BbQkuTblF%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703054059&sdata=RIXnwGLBIS4xg3tWvp8U13%2FB3a5QpFV8BR5c7DQtAT8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mXpqH596Ohr9_Rt7Yf7pkK5BbQkuTblF/view?usp=sharing</a><br>
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<div>1) Sfendoni-Mentzou, Demetra. “Peirce on Continuity and Laws of Nature.” Transactions of the Charles S. Peirce Society, vol. 33, no. 3, 1997, pp. 646–678. JSTOR,
<a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fstable%2F40320633&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703064057&sdata=jNc7zqqEXhY8%2FbHl8AbJ%2BUGZE7YXuiASYpVtFPnBN7E%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
www.jstor.org/stable/40320633</a>. Accessed 15 Sept. 2020.<br clear="all">
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