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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear Joseph and FIS Colleagues,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Thank you very much for the nice posts!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Please excuse me for the delay of my current
post!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>During the last weeks I had been occupied with organizing the
ITHEA® ITA 2020 International Scientific Events, including the GIT 2020 Int.
conference. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Now, I want to make a little methodical remark.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If we take 0 and 1 as phenomena which we want to investigate
we have to make choice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>To take 0 as primary concept and to try to explain 1 by it or
vice versa.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In both cases, we couldn’t do any reasonable conclusion.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Our two concepts – 0 and 1 – are concepts at the same
level.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>We need a third concept to be accepted as a primary and to
explain our concepts by it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In mathematics this problem had been solved centuries
ago.</FONT> <FONT size=4><BR>Here I want to remember it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The third concept can be the concept “Digit”. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>This way, 0 and 1 may be explained easily as concrete states
of Digit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The same problem was pointed by Stan. The dialectical unity of
two opposite states.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Following the reasons given above, we can solve the problem
with dualism of concept “Information” by taking an other concept as
primary.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Such concept for me is the concept “Reflection”.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>As I already had written, the information and data are kinds
of reflection which differ only on the basis of subject’s or agent’s possibility
to connect the reflection to other his/her mental models.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Friendly greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Krassimir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=joe.brenner@bluewin.ch
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">Joseph Brenner</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 08, 2020 4:38 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] Krassimir's question about
information</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Dear
Friends,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=gmail-p1><SPAN class=gmail-s1><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>A short
dialogue:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=gmail-p1><SPAN class=gmail-s1><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Stan: Krassimir: “Is
information primary or derived/secondary?” My (Stan’s) restatement is: "Is
information, as physical form, potential? -- or emergent upon having an effect?
This formulation shows that there is no difference between these
concepts.”</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=gmail-p2><SPAN class=gmail-s1><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Joseph:
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>HOW is it both? What does it mean “to
be both” at the same time? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=gmail-p5><SPAN class=gmail-s1><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Stan: My “potential”
refers to ‘in itself’, which (at any moment) is timeless, and is Krassimir’s
“primary information”.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=gmail-s1><FONT
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=gmail-s1><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>While my “having an effect” refers to
a particular moment when a primary physical form is acting, or being acted upon,
when its form may have consequences, or become consequential. In this event its
form generates “derived/secondary information".
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=gmail-p3><SPAN class=gmail-s1><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Joseph: This is what
requires explication and where I think Lupasco had something to offer, in his
basic principle of dynamic opposition </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=gmail-s2><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>(Stan: generating “derived/secondary
information)</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=gmail-s1><FONT
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>. This is no more and no less than
that a falling object instantiates kinetic and potential energy at the same time
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=gmail-s2><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN
lang=EN-GB style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>(Stan: That is, its
primary form still exists, even if deformed)</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=gmail-s1><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>, except that real complex processes
do not “fall to the bottom” (no 0 nor 1).</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=gmail-m-9089009825757674525gmail-p4><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Stan:
Effects necessarily emerge from potentials (IF they emerge at all). But are
both potential and emergent 'at the same time' only while the potential is
unfolding: a physical situation embodies a potential, which can inform.
When/if that potential unfolds the potential is realized, and emerges in its
effects.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=gmail-m-9089009825757674525gmail-p4><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Joseph: I agree,
but in my view your correct expression, “while the potential is unfolding” has
two significant consequences: the process is neither instantaneous nor
spontaneous. In the Lupasco view of dynamics, a potential ‘unfolds’ against
some actual resistance to that unfolding, and the effects, in almost the same
language, emerge, actualized, as a consequence of that opposition. The word
“only” to modify “at the same time” is justified for simple processes which
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">do</SPAN></I> go to an ideal limit of 0 or
1, <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">not</SPAN></I> for complex,
informational processes. Is there an ‘end’ to this dialogue?! And is
information not present throughout it?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=gmail-m-9089009825757674525gmail-p4><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=gmail-m-9089009825757674525gmail-p4><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Joseph<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=gmail-m-9089009825757674525gmail-p4><FONT size=3
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
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