<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Dear friends.<br>It is very nice to hear from you and I hope everybody is well and healthy.<br>The 10 principles table is amazing. I love good and intelligent summarizations :-)<br>But it is important to remember that the concept of information is context dependent (for example: biological, physical, social, philosophical, etc.)<br>So, in my opinion, it should have "n" tables, one for each context.<br>These tables may be related, forming a classification or even an ontology.<br>For those who believe that the concept of information can be unified, I guess that the construction of these tables would be the first step.<br>We are 102 specialists in the FIS list. Wouldn't be an interesting collective project to build this multidimensional object composed of tables with interdisciplinary connections?<br>What do you think?<br>Cheers<br></div><div>Moisés</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 às 14:58, Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><div><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581xb73edf57ea2a451fad291f3806dbcb8c">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear Krassimir, </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I find it difficult to follow. I added some comments and questions?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Best,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Loet</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><b>1. Information is a primary concept</b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><b>2. Information is a secondary concept</b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1. Information <font color="#ff0000">can be considered</font> as information, neither matter nor energy.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000">Matter is expressed as mass (e.g. kilograms). Energy in
Watts; information in dimensionless bits. </font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1. Information
is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every reflection is
information. <b><i>Only </i></b><b><i><span style="color:red">subjectively comprehended </span></i></b><b><i>reflections are information. Not comprehended
reflections are data.<u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="#ff0000">Why subjectively? Why
“data” instead of information.</font><u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="#ff0000"><br></font></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="#ff0000">It seems that there can be mutual information between information and reflections? -:)</font></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2. Information is
<span style="color:red">comprehended
</span>into
structures, patterns, messages, or flows. <font color="#ff0000">What do you mean with “comprehended”?
Who is comprehending?</font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2. Reflections
may be comprehended as structures, patterns, messages, flows, etc.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000">What is reflected by whom </font><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000">Or is this universally the case? </font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">3. Information
can be recognized, can be measured, and can be processed (either
computationally or non-computationally).<u></u><u></u></p>
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<td width="426" valign="top" style="width:319.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:1pt solid windowtext;border-right:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">3. Reflections
can be recognized, can be measured—<font color="#ff0000">what is the dimensionality</font>? How can it be measured?
, and can be processed (either computationally or non-computationally).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000">The measurement is not clear. </font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">4. <span style="color:red">Information </span>(i<font color="#ff0000">t seems to me
that these are entropy and energy flows</font>) flows are essential organizers of
life's self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and <span style="color:red">mixing </span>up (vague) with
the accompanying energy flows.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">4. Reflection
flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying energy
flows.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">5.
Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie the
complexity of biological organizations at all scales.<span style="color:red">Perhaps even
beyond biology.</span><span style="color:red"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">5.
Communication is based on special kind of reflections created by one entity
and reflected by a second one. This way, the reflections comprehended as
information by the first entity may be secondary reflected by the second one.
Such information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity
of biological organizations at all scales.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>
<div><br></div><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581signature_old"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x85ce3a299ec04ea"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x78c9f4c0540648e7b564d127ae9a7d74"><div><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581signature_old"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x068ffe68e305459"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581xd031ae4a00354d21ab008b16080cd048"><div><br></div><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581signature_old"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x4f407acb80d4411"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x775eaf3ae7f6460082dcdda3faf877c6"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581signature_old"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x920d19d74fc84b0"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74">
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Loet
Leydesdorff <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Professor emeritus,
University of Amsterdam<br>
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">loet@leydesdorff.net </span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">; </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size:9pt">Associate Faculty, </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">SPRU, </span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">University of Sussex; <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Guest Professor </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">ISTIC, </span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">Beijing;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Visiting Fellow, </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">,
University of London; <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><span style="font-size:9pt"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</a></span></span></div><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x6d48cd6784e049409ff4972e00ee71a6"><div style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></div>
<div><div><font face="Calibri" style="font-size:9pt">ORCID: <a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098" target="_blank">http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098</a>;</font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"> </font></div></div><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581signature_old" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x4f407acb80d4411"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x775eaf3ae7f6460082dcdda3faf877c6"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581signature_old"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x920d19d74fc84b0"><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div><div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Krassimir Markov" <<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" target="_blank">markov@foibg.com</a>></div>
<div>To: "FIS" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 6/28/2020 3:46:22 PM</div>
<div>Subject: [Fis] 10 Principles</div><div><br></div>
<div id="gmail-m_6624326437655254581xec4b8951bbb140d"><blockquote cite="http://5DF7D15457A34EDE89C305EA69FE9BC2@vaiomarkov" type="cite" class="gmail-m_6624326437655254581cite2">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">Dear Marcus and FIS Colleagues,<br></font></div>
<div><font size="4">From my point of view the main choice which has to be made in
the very beginning is between two opposite cases:</font></div>
<div><font size="4">1. <b>Information
is a primary concept</b></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><b>2.
</b><b>Information is a secondary
concept</b></font></div>
<div><font size="4">This is fundamental choice which cause all further
work.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>As I already had pointed, if information is a primary
concept than no theories about information can be created. One may create many
other theories for EVERYTHING but not for information. Only infinite variety of
examples may be created but not fruitful theory and discussions. For instance,
the religious approach belong to this class.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>The second case gives us possibility to create theories
ABOUT information starting from one or more other primary concepts.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">I prefer the second case. The primary concepts I have used are
Entity and Relationship (<a title="http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf" href="http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf</a>),
and Reflection as a result of interaction between entities.<br><br>To illustrate
the difference between two cases, let see the first 5 principles of Pedro in the
two variants: </font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<table style="border-width:medium;border-style:none;border-color:initial;border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(0,0,0)" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="border-width:1pt;border-style:solid;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt" valign="top" width="375">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><font face="Times New Roman">1. Information is a primary
concept</font></b></p></td>
<td style="border-width:1pt 1pt 1pt medium;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-top-color:windowtext;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:initial" valign="top" width="426">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><font face="Times New Roman">2. Information is a secondary
concept</font></b></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;border-style:none solid solid;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:windowtext" valign="top" width="375">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">1. Information is information, neither matter nor
energy.</font></p></td>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:initial" valign="top" width="426">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">1. Information is a class of reflections in
material entities. Not every reflection is information. <b><i>Only subjectively comprehended
reflections are information. Not comprehended reflections are
data.</i></b></font></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;border-style:none solid solid;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:windowtext" valign="top" width="375">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">2. Information is comprehended into structures,
patterns, messages, or flows.</font></p></td>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:initial" valign="top" width="426">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures,
patterns, messages, flows, etc.</font></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;border-style:none solid solid;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:windowtext" valign="top" width="375">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">3. Information can be recognized, can be measured,
and can be processed (either computationally or
non-computationally).</font></p></td>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:initial" valign="top" width="426">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured,
and can be processed (either computationally or
non-computationally).</font></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;border-style:none solid solid;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:windowtext" valign="top" width="375">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">4. Information flows are essential organizers of
life's self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up
with the accompanying energy flows.</font></p></td>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:initial" valign="top" width="426">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of
life's self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up
with the accompanying energy flows.</font></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;border-style:none solid solid;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:windowtext" valign="top" width="375">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">5. Communication/information exchanges among
adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organizations
at all scales.</font></p></td>
<td style="border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border-left-color:initial" valign="top" width="426">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman">5. Communication is based on special kind of
reflections created by one entity and reflected by a second one. This way,
the reflections comprehended as information by the first entity may be
secondary reflected by the second one. Such information exchanges among
adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organizations
at all scales.</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">I am afraid that many of FIS members prefer the first case.
<br>I do not know who prefer the second one beside me. If such ones exist,
please write to me and we will continue the productive common work.
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">Friendly greetings</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Krassimir</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div></div></div></blockquote></div>
</div>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Moisés André Nisenbaum</div><div>Coordenador do Curso Técnico em Manutenção e Suporte em Informática (MSI)</div><div dir="ltr">Instituto Federal do Rio de Janeiro - IFRJ<br>Campus Rio de Janeiro<br><a href="mailto:moises.nisenbaum@ifrj.edu.br" target="_blank">moises.nisenbaum@ifrj.edu.br</a></div></div><div><br></div><div><div></div><div>Currículo Lattes: <a href="http://lattes.cnpq.br/7720722027872922" target="_blank">http://lattes.cnpq.br/7720722027872922</a> <br></div><div><a href="http://youtube.com/moisesandre" target="_blank">youtube.com/moisesandre</a></div><div><a href="http://facebook.com/moisesandre" target="_blank">facebook.com/moisesandre</a></div><div><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/moisesandre" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/moisesandre</a><br></div><div><a href="http://dicas.moisesandre.com.br/" target="_blank">dicas.moisesandre.com.br<br></a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>