<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Krassimir, Hi Loet,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It seems to me that “primary information” is just data, and then subjective information is the first person view of those data, through or by a universal machine.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Obviously I cannot use “<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> Information is a class of reflections in material entities. </span>“.</div><div class="">The reason is that I explained the (phenomenological) existence of the material entities from the processing of all universal machine in arithmetic.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">“Computation” is a purely mathematic concept, discovered by mathematical logician, in arithmetic. Then, assuming Descartes’ mechanism, the physical reality can no more be considered as primary: it is a view from inside arithmetic, and this implies that physics is a statistic on (infinitely) many computations (from which I derived quantum mechanics before I saw that physicists were already there).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What we have to do is to distinguish the first person view and the third person view, and others, as all those (platonic, cf the Theaetetus) view-mode are imposed by incompleteness. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Taking this into account would related the canonical philosophy of mind of the universal Turing machine with many information theoretic points made in FIS.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The bomb in philosophy or theology is the discovery of the universal machine, which generalises the notion of “man” as used by neoplatonist, notably. It makes the machine’s philosophy of mind testable, by comparing the physics “in the head of the machine” and what we observe when looking at nature.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Unfortunately, the fact that all computation are run in all models of arithmetic (or in the standard model) is not well know, and even less and less known and less taught. It appears only in advanced course in mathematical logic, and this becomes more and more like an unimportant option in many mathematician curriculum…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Bruno </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 29 Jun 2020, at 08:14, Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><style id="signatureStyle" type="text/css" class=""></style><style id="css_styles" type="text/css" class="">blockquote.cite { margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right:0px; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc }
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body { font-family: Segoe UI; font-size: 12pt; }</style><div class=""><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class="">Dear Krassimir</div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><br class=""><blockquote cite="x-msg://62/CAGN0Zw=oY5GY5tRkPeJa4U8ZsbGkBdkDAYkJJzsiEpXWzrDRCQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite2"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">These two points
correspond to the different paradigms about concept information.</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">The first one is based
on understanding that the information exists independently of consciousness and
it is everywhere. This is so called “Attributive paradigm”.</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">The second one is the
“Subjective paradigm” which is based on understanding that information is a
result from consciousness processing and exists only in its memory.</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">So, it is clear, I
belong to the second paradigm.</font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><font face="tahoma" class=""><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><font size="2" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""></font></div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" style="font-size: 13.3333px;" class=""><div class=""><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><font style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">The issue is, in my opinion, the specification of the relation. Concepts are specified and entertained in discourses to which we have reflexive access to different extends. "Objective knowledge" is based on coding the communication. </font></div></div></div></div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" style="font-size: 13.3333px;" class=""><br class=""></div></font><blockquote cite="x-msg://62/CAGN0Zw=oY5GY5tRkPeJa4U8ZsbGkBdkDAYkJJzsiEpXWzrDRCQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite2"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri;" class=""><div style="text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" color="#ff0000" class="">Why
“data” instead of information? </font></div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;" class=""><font color="#ff0000" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">The “Data“ and “Information” are dialectically interconnected.
<br class="">The same reflection is Data or Information depending of the subjective
interconnections between internal mental models and it.</font></font></div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;" class=""><font style="COLOR:#ff0000" class=""><font face="Calibri" class=""><font size="4" class="">What is reflected by whom? <font class="">The reflection for the Subject is what is activated on its
receptors. So, the subject, or INFOS, reflects states of its external and
internal sensors.</font></font></font></font></div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;" class=""><font size="4" style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""><br class=""></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><font face="tahoma" style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""><font size="4" class="">There is a model of agency in the background of these formulations. The "states" cannot communicate. </font></font></div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><font face="tahoma" style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""><br class=""></font><blockquote cite="x-msg://62/CAGN0Zw=oY5GY5tRkPeJa4U8ZsbGkBdkDAYkJJzsiEpXWzrDRCQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite2"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><font size="4" class=""><font style="COLOR:#ff0000" class="">The measurement is not clear.<font class=""> Yes!
What is happen in the consciousness is still not known. But for practical needs
we already used differed structures and distances. There is nice work of Deza
and Deza called “Encyclopedia of </font></font>distances” published by Springer. In addition you
may see the ITHEA book “Mathematics of distances” <a class="">http://foibg.com/ibs_isc/ibs-25/ibs-25.htm</a> . </font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""> </font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><font face="Calibri" size="4" class="">Why not use information theory for the measurement? (Theil, 1972)</font></div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><font face="Calibri" size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><font face="Calibri" size="4" class="">Best,</font></div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><font face="Calibri" size="4" class="">Loet</font></div><div id="xf5f6ab4d92f5411" class=""><font face="Calibri" size="4" class=""><br class=""></font><blockquote cite="x-msg://62/CAGN0Zw=oY5GY5tRkPeJa4U8ZsbGkBdkDAYkJJzsiEpXWzrDRCQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite2"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""><div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">You are welcome for
further questions and remarks!</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">Friendly
greetings</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class="">Krassimir</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma" class=""><font size="4" face="Calibri" class=""></font> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;FONT:10pt tahoma" class="">
<div class=""><b class="">From:</b> <a title="loet@leydesdorff.net" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" class="">Loet Leydesdorff</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:57 PM</div>
<div class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a title="markov@foibg.com" href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" class="">Krassimir Markov</a> ; <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" class="">FIS</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] 10 Principles</div></div>
<div class=""> </div></div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">
<div class="">
<div id="m_7434984660882881271xb73edf57ea2a451fad291f3806dbcb8c" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class="">Dear Krassimir,
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class="">I find it difficult to
follow. I added some comments and questions?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class="">Best,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class="">Loet</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class=""> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<table style="border: medium none; border-collapse: collapse;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1" class="">
<tbody class="">
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:281.25pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:center" align="center"><b class="">1. Information is a primary concept</b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:319.5pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:center" align="center"><b class="">2. Information is a secondary concept</b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:281.25pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">1. Information <font color="#ff0000" class="">can be
considered</font> as information, neither matter nor energy.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000" class="">Matter is expressed as mass (e.g.
kilograms). Energy in Watts; information in dimensionless bits.
</font><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:319.5pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">1. Information is a class of reflections in material
entities. Not every reflection is information. <b class=""><i class="">Only
</i></b><b class=""><i class=""><span style="COLOR:red" class="">subjectively
comprehended </span></i></b><b class=""><i class="">reflections are information. Not
comprehended reflections are data.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></i></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><font color="#ff0000" class="">Why subjectively? Why “data”
instead of information.</font><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><font color="#ff0000" class=""><br class=""></font></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><font color="#ff0000" class="">It seems that there can be
mutual information between information and reflections?
-:)</font></b></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:281.25pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">2. Information is <span style="COLOR:red" class="">comprehended
</span>into structures, patterns, messages, or flows. <font color="#ff0000" class="">What do you mean with “comprehended”? Who is
comprehending?</font><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:319.5pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures,
patterns, messages, flows, etc.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000" class="">What is reflected by whom
</font><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000" class="">Or is this universally the case?
</font></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:281.25pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and
can be processed (either computationally or
non-computationally).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:319.5pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured—<font color="#ff0000" class="">what is the dimensionality</font>? How can it be measured? ,
and can be processed (either computationally or non-computationally).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#ff0000" class="">The measurement is not clear.
</font><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:281.25pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">4. <span style="COLOR:red" class="">Information
</span>(i<font color="#ff0000" class="">t seems to me that these are entropy and
energy flows</font>) flows are essential organizers of life's
self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and <span style="COLOR:red" class="">mixing
</span>up (vague) with the accompanying energy flows.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:319.5pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of life's
self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the
accompanying energy flows.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:281.25pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive
life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all
scales.<span style="COLOR:red" class="">Perhaps
even beyond biology.</span><span style="COLOR:red" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;WIDTH:319.5pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">5. Communication is based on special kind of
reflections created by one entity and reflected by a second one. This way,
the reflections comprehended as information by the first entity may be
secondary reflected by the second one. Such information exchanges among
adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organizations
at all scales.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif" class=""> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></div></div>
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</span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#1f497d" class="">Loet Leydesdorff <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#1f497d" class="">Professor emeritus, University of
Amsterdam<br class="">Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:#44546a" class=""><a title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net </span></a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#1f497d" class="">; </span><span style="COLOR:#44546a" class=""><a title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt" class="">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#1f497d" class=""> <br class=""></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">Associate Faculty, </span><span style="COLOR:#44546a" class=""><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">SPRU,
</span></a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">University of Sussex; <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">Guest Professor </span><span style="COLOR:#44546a" class=""><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">Zhejiang
Univ.</span></a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">, Hangzhou; Visiting
Professor, </span><span style="COLOR:#44546a" class=""><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">ISTIC, </span></a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">Beijing;<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">Visiting Fellow, </span><span style="COLOR:#44546a" class=""><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class="">,
University of London; <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#44546a" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt" class=""><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" class="">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</a></span></span></div>
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<div class="">------ Original Message ------</div>
<div class="">From: "Krassimir Markov" <<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" class="">markov@foibg.com</a>></div>
<div class="">To: "FIS" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div class="">Sent: 6/28/2020 3:46:22 PM</div>
<div class="">Subject: [Fis] 10 Principles</div>
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<blockquote class="m_7434984660882881271cite2" cite="http://5DF7D15457A34EDE89C305EA69FE9BC2@vaiomarkov/" type="cite">
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<div class=""><font size="4" class="">Dear Marcus and FIS Colleagues,<br class=""></font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">From my point of view the main choice which has to be made
in the very beginning is between two opposite cases:</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">1. <b class="">Information is a primary concept</b></font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""><b class="">2. </b><b class="">Information is a secondary
concept</b></font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">This is fundamental choice which cause all further
work.</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class="">As I already had pointed, if information is a primary
concept than no theories about information can be created. One may create many
other theories for EVERYTHING but not for information. Only infinite variety
of examples may be created but not fruitful theory and discussions. For
instance, the religious approach belong to this class.</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class="">The second case gives us possibility to create theories
ABOUT information starting from one or more other primary
concepts.</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">I prefer the second case. The primary concepts I have used
are Entity and Relationship (<a title="http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf" href="http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf" class="">http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf</a>),
and Reflection as a result of interaction between entities.<br class=""><br class="">To
illustrate the difference between two cases, let see the first 5 principles of
Pedro in the two variants: </font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
<table style="border: medium none; border-collapse: collapse;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1" class="">
<tbody class="">
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal" align="center"><b class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">1. Information is a primary
concept</font></b></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal" align="center"><b class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">2. Information is a
secondary concept</font></b></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">1. Information is information, neither matter nor
energy.</font></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">1. Information is a class of reflections in
material entities. Not every reflection is information. <b class=""><i class="">Only subjectively comprehended
reflections are information. Not comprehended reflections are
data.</i></b></font></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">2. Information is comprehended into structures,
patterns, messages, or flows.</font></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures,
patterns, messages, flows, etc.</font></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">3. Information can be recognized, can be
measured, and can be processed (either computationally or
non-computationally).</font></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">3. Reflections can be recognized, can be
measured, and can be processed (either computationally or
non-computationally).</font></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">4. Information flows are essential organizers of
life's self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up
with the accompanying energy flows.</font></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of
life's self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up
with the accompanying energy flows.</font></p></td></tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="375" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">5. Communication/information exchanges among
adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organizations
at all scales.</font></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:windowtext 1pt solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:windowtext 1pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:5.4pt;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:5.4pt" width="426" valign="top" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" class="">5. Communication is based on special kind of
reflections created by one entity and reflected by a second one. This
way, the reflections comprehended as information by the first entity may
be secondary reflected by the second one. Such information exchanges
among adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological
organizations at all scales.</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">I am afraid that many of FIS members prefer the first case.
<br class="">I do not know who prefer the second one beside me. If such ones exist,
please write to me and we will continue the productive common work.
</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">Friendly greetings</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">Krassimir</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>
</div><br clear="all" class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div style="text-align:center" align="center" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">
<hr width="100%" size="3" align="center" class="">
</span></div><p class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Loet
Leydesdorff </span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Professor, University of
Amsterdam<br class="">
Amsterdam School
of Communications Research (ASCoR)<br class="">
Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam.<br class="">
Tel. +31-20-525 6598; fax: +31-842239111</span></p><p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:7.5pt" class=""><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net </span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">; </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt" class=""><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""> <br class="">
</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Visiting Professor, </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue" class=""><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" class="">ISTIC, </a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Beijing; Honorary Professor, </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue" class=""><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" class="">SPRU,
</a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">University of Sussex; <a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" class="">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</a><span class=""> </span><br class="">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""></span></p></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
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