<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"><html lang="de" xml:lang="en" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /><title></title><style type="text/css">html,body{background-color:#fff;color:#333;line-height:1.4;font-family:sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,Trebuchet MS;}</style></head><body><p>Dear Karl,</p>
<p>I would love to understand more of the implications of your interesting model. Since I have difficulties following your argumentation, I have to ask you for clarification. Your writing style and style of explanation is difficult for me to follow, since I am not <strong>that</strong> good in jumping from example to example while having the feeling that you do not actually exemplify using the mechanics of the example to aid in generating a picture of your model in my head. You prompt to visualize a Neandertal together with a pocket watch so this picture is clear: Some guy who has neither the understanding of the elements nor of the relations of the system presented to him, so the expectation is that the watch will be either destroyed or ignored or something will be changed not-destructively per chance. Or that the guy will be watching the outcomes on the clock face, memorizing them and thereby maybe deduce that there are cycles involved creating the bigger cycle. But you do not use or tie to any of my expectations but instead jump to the logic of unit cycles and the analytic tool of combining cycles of different diameters (number of teeth) in superpositions. When I follow you there, you immediately remind me of examples for ecological necessities and basis behind cycles, maybe having in the back of your mind again the Neandertal guy to who you might have tried to explain the working of clock cogs with the help of this metaphor. But the information I would want to receive from you, in which way you found out that “a+b=c” can become limited and predictable when knowing more about the mechanics of permutation and cyclic combination not yet reached my mind. You continue with a foreshadowing of constrained motion in periodic respectively cyclically repeating processes and their step-size, respectively angular velocity of cogs in your pocket watch model and my mind prepares itself for some kind of Fourier transform- model but instead you jump to … what I in my confused state only can interpret as hint to spatial dimensionality and independence (difference) of three orthogonal coordinates guiding motion through time. At least then you lost me, when you continue talking about “linear, planar, and in some cases, spatial existence.” Are you referring to forms of attractors in 2d and 3d space? Are you referring to something like Waddington´s (sorry as a Biologist I have the example of genotype-phenotype maps when thinking of potential landscapes) potential landscape model? I am only able to guess.</p>
<p> I start anew: “The elements are by their properties joined in a wheel with other elements together with which they change place during a reorder.” Is the reorder you are referring to the reorder possible in the constrained situation inside the intact pocket watch, i.e. rotating at a given speed in a given sense of rotation (clockwise or counter clockwise) so creating a sequence of numbers which two clockhands guided by their motion are streaking when passing the clock face in clockwise motion? In this case I understand properties as given by the intact system pocket watch. Or is it the reorder which could be possible when opening the watch and rearranging the coordinated cogs changing their correlation? Then I would understand properties as given by sizes and teeth-frequency of cogs. You do not explicitly exclude any of the interpretations. But since you jump to the example of Rubik´s cube which also is a constrained system that usually is kept intact, I assume you were referring to the rearrangement in the clock by winding it up or simply by letting it run observing which time (number) it will generate. In the example of the Rubik cube there are of course more combinatory patterns to be expected than in the clock. Are you trying to make my mind switch to external patterns generated by internal interactive mechanisms which are hidden to the superficial decision making? The concurrency of teeth of different cogs or of colours on the Rubik cube is calculable. “because the properties of the elements had given them places in linear sequences, positions on planes and at times spatial positions, too. The properties of the elements are like playing cards at the beginning of the game: not each of the possible impacts on the game of a property of an element will be necessarily played out.” I agree, excited what will be coming next.</p>
<p>Like Shannon and Terry you see information as given by the possible and potentially available combinations of developed elements which are not to be seen at the actual moment but which are given by the constraints on relations and elements that developed with (and within) a system. The remaining alternatives are a part of the setup. Understood, still excited for the explanation how your model helps in narrowing down theoretical alternatives without a full analysis of the “cogs” and their relations inside the system.</p>
<p>“Taking a closer look at the positions of *a+b=c* during periodic rearrangements due to external” influences… You are hinting at the fact that there is a numeric (modellable by number sequence permutation and combination of sequences) processing of external influences in systems and that there exists only a limited set of possibilities which are “viable” given the sequences and options for their rearrangement are known.</p>
<p>“…inclusion, exclusion notation of group relations suddenly refers to the figures in the shadows: the truth and validity of sentences remains identical, whether they refer to states of the world in the foreground or in the background.” Now you have my full attention. I am really curious how your model helps in finding the right cog sizes and relations given a system dynamic or something like that. I am thrilled but at the same time I see that your text has almost come to its end.</p>
<p>“patterns evolving when a collection of realizations of *a+b=c*is subjected to periodic rearrangements.” …sounds like you might be needing more computation power. You know the contact address of the general secretary of IS4SI and you know people in the community who are interested in the implications of your interesting model (and I bet you know several people who already gained a deeper insight into the capacities of your model than I managed to gain until now, inside the community). My proposal would be: Tell the community which calculations you need to be done, which you cannot do yourself and ask for support. Or you explain the model and its implications in a way that can be understood by the gs, the president of IS4SI, the vice presidents etc. to make them organize a team working on a research question relevant for your model.</p>
<p>In either case whether my proposal might be of help or not, I wish you the best for your interesting model!</p>
<p>Best wishes and thank you for the exciting and promising insinuations,</p>
<p>Annette</p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;">---</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;">Dr. Annette Grathoff</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;">Evolution of Information Processing Systems</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;">Vienna</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;"><a href="mailto:grathoff@icbm.de" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">grathoff@icbm.de</a></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;">06802341968</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;">General Secretary of the</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;">International Society for the Study of Information (IS4SI)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 9px;"><a href="mailto:Annette.grathoff@is4si.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">Annette.grathoff@is4si.org</a></span></p>
</div>
<p>Karl Javorszky wrote on 04.04.2020 16:39 (GMT +02:00):</p>
<blockquote cite="mid:CA+nf4CV1TJ1QxwOZ9pTT1f7u8U9raDYNSN_PDth9fJLGcymGww@mail.gmail.com">
<pre>Dear Colleges,
There emerges a rather well-defined concept of a “bed” as a tool, in which
to investigate the behaviour of a model undergoing simulation exercises.
The conceptual infrastructure for a laboratory is present.
Why don’t we work in a systematic, scientific fashion and find out, what
modelling and simulating yields in knowledge. The idea is to put *a+b=c* in
the cradle, and watch, how the multitude of true sentences begins
self-organising.
For the study of information, understanding the technical term of
information is helpful, because at least one can say, that the further, the
non-technical, the empirical interpretations of the term information are
different to the technical understanding of information, namely in such
points:; such a clarification would help to keep chasing the fairy.
To clarify the technical meaning of information, one will need a mental
exercise. One should imagine oneself as a Neanderthal to whom the workings
of a pocket watch are explained. The concepts that allow the construction
of a pocket watch are not yet in the mental inventory of the noble savage.
The idea is, that quite a few cycles interact like the wheels and cogs in a
pocket watch. There are only a limited number of possible next moves once
one is in the process of predicting the next move in a process that is
steered by two periodic changes. The instances of *a+b=c *are being
continuously re-sorted, being subject to two periodic changes in
circumstances, always in a position to obey the requirements to both of the
periodic changes impose. (If the day/night periodicity suggests: move to
warmer area, and the tide changes suggest: move to area less turbulent, the
element is in possession of a path, with areas from-to.) The concept of a
move is comparable to one tick of the watch, and is 1/3 of the standard 3
reorders that constitute a temporal and spatial moment with 3 rectangular
axes. The moves happen by means of cycles. Arising from the fact of the
elements being different among each other, the properties that
differentiate the elements among each other transfer to these a linear,
planar, and in some cases, spatial existence. The elements are by their
properties joined in a wheel with other elements together with which they
change place during a reorder. The mechanism of the pocket watch is
comparable to an idealised Rubik cube, where concurrent wheels-cycles run,
and the patterns on the faces of the cube are the appearances which one
perceives and counts. Which combinations of elements can be contemporaneous
is a solvable question, because the properties of the elements had given
them places in linear sequences, positions on planes and at times spatial
positions, too. The properties of the elements are like playing cards at
the beginning of the game: not each of the possible impacts on the game of
a property of an element will be necessarily played out. The point to make
is, that a complete table could be generated which lists all possible games
that can have taken place. We deal with a limited amount of being possibly
different. The whole mechanism can be modelled by a limited number of
wheels.
Information in the technical sense is that part (those teeth) of the cog
that is presently not in the clutch, is presently not engaged. In a Las
Vegas machine: those symbols that are on the wheel but not presently in the
window. This is the background, to which the assertive statement relates.
The remaining alternatives are a part of the setup. Information is not
generated, it has always been with us, the realised or realisable
alternatives being an implication of the properties of the elements, the
non-realised alternatives are as well a part of the package. The background
to a logical statement is generated with the logical statement.
Taking a closer look at the positions of *a+b=c* during periodic
rearrangements, due to external circumstances influencing the habitat,
would allow clarifying expectations vis a vis information. In its
elementary form, information is simply the frame to the picture. As the
sentences become more complex, the stage can be easily reached, where the
inclusion, exclusion notation of group relations suddenly refers to the
figures in the shadows: the truth and validity of sentences remains
identical, whether they refer to states of the world in the foreground or
in the background.
Many more arguments could be put forward to encourage this learned society
to investigate the patterns evolving when a collection of realisations
of *a+b=c
*is subjected to periodic rearrangements. A deeper understanding of the
non-restrictive meanings ascribed to the word information can be achieved
when these connotations are aligned to ideas of predictability and
tenacity. There appears to exist a natural constant for truthfulness, inner
consistence of a state of the assembly, which concept would sound
interesting to philosophers, but to researchers in applied sciences, also.
Best wishes wherever you are
Karl
Am Mo., 30. März 2020 um 14:11 Uhr schrieb Krassimir Markov <
markov@foibg.com>:
> Dear Annette and FIS Colleagues,
>
> The following question I had sent to Gordana offline due to the FIS limit
> of number of posts per week.
> I see it is still actual, so I resend it now.
>
> In line with the FIS discussion, I would kindly ask you to tell, in your
> view, whether this useful simulation is information, data or something else?
>
> Be healthy and in good spirit!
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
>
> *From:* annette.grathoff@is4si.org
> *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2020 12:46 PM
> *To:* gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se ; fis@listas.unizar.es
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Excellent simulation
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Grant Sanderson (3blue1brown) did it again. Please do not tell me you
> never heard of him and his excellent YouTube science-knowledge
> visualization videos! He changed the interest of thousands of people for
> abstract mathematical ideas, making them concrete and more tangible by his
> excellent simulation videos. He originally came from the Khan Academy team
> as you can read here: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3Blue1Brown" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3Blue1Brown">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3Blue1Brown</a>.
>
> This I say as Annette Grathoff, not as the General secretary: My personal
> opinion is that every scientist interested in informing curious people and
> raising interest in scientific knowledge should know his videos. This is
> how information about important concepts is enabled to spread many times
> faster than when relying solely on the classical ways. It does science well
> to spread channels like his, after you (not only) scientifically approved
> of the content.
>
> Best wishes and stay healthy,
>
> Annette
>
> Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic wrote on 29.03.2020 12:17 (GMT +02:00):
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
>
> Please have a look at this excellent simulation:
>
> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" title="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs&feature=youtu.be">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs&feature=youtu.be</a>
>
>
>
> which makes me think about how powerful thinking tools
> that computation and information/data really offer.
>
>
>
> Stay safe and take care,
>
> Gordana
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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</pre>
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