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mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:FR;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">Dear
Krassimir and FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
The proposed definition of “information” in my last post tells what “information” is:
<i>information is any energy variation that conveys meaning or participates to meaning generation.
</i>If you want to avoid the word “meaning” in the definition you can say “</span><i><span>information is any energy variation that can participate to the constraint satisfaction of an agent”,
</span></i>and then introduce “meaning” in the constraint satisfaction process (we are close to “a difference that makes a difference”).<br>
<span>I’m a bit careful with the word “data” because it can introduce too strong a cut between with/without meaning, (with mental models
<span style="background:
white">as you say</span></span>: “with meaning is information” and “without meaning is data”), a kind of difference in nature that may be source of new questions by itself. For me there is no clear cut between with/without meaning as
there is always a potentiality for meaningfulness in information. “Meaning” is an agent creation, not an a priori given. A string of bits can be the coded sentence of “this is water”. If you know the code you will access the meaning, if not the string of bits
is meaningless to you (but will have a meaning once you get the code). In both cases it is information as an energy variation that can participate to a constraint satisfaction. The difference is with the agent’s ability to interpret (decode) the received information.
For these reasons I try to avoid the word “data” when talking about information and meaning.<br>
Regarding mental models and subjectivity/objectivity, we agree that they are ok for humans, but I do not see very well how they can be used for artificial agents. A purpose of the system approach I favor is precisely to be usable for any agent. A system is
a set of elements linked by a set of relations. And information and meaning can exist for any type of agent (plants, animals, humans and artificial agents.).<br>
There is a lot to say on these interesting subjects.<br>
<br>
Health and happiness to all<br>
Christophe<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Krassimir Markov <markov@foibg.com><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 26 mars 2020 23:46<br>
<b>À :</b> Christophe Menant <christophe.menant@hotmail.fr>; FIS <<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Fis] defining information</font>
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<div><font size="4">Dear Christophe and FIS Colleagues,</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">I wish you strong health and patience to avoid this very dangerous virus!</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">About meaning:</font></div>
<div><font size="4">“</font></div>
<font size="4">
<p align="left" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><b><i><font size="4"><font color="#ff0000">A meaning
</font></font></i></b><i><font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"><font color="#ff0000">is meaningful information</font> that is generated by a system submitted to a constraint when it
receives <font color="#ff0000">an external information</font> that has a connection with the constraint.
</font></font></i></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><b><font size="4"><em><font color="#ff0000">The meaning is formed</font> of the connection existing between the
<font color="#ff0000">received information</font> and the constraint of the system</em></font></b><font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"><em>. The function of the meaning is to participate
to the determination of an action that will be implemented in order to satisfy the constraint of the system.
</em></font></font></p>
<font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"></font></font></font>
<div><font size="4"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman PS"><font face="Calibri"></font></font></font></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">“</font></div>
<div><font size="4">We still do not know what is information, so it is difficult to define meaning.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">I think your idea is very near to what we need but I prefer another way to say the same.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">INFOS reflects the surrounding environment via his/her sensors(receptors). Signals from sensors(receptors) via some transfer mechanism like neurons come to the brain or to the central memory of INFOS. Interconnected signals form interconnected
active points in the memory. Such formation is called “mental model” of the reflected reality. The same is happen when one or more active memory formation(s) is(are) reflected in another such one. This is again “mental model” but of the subjective internal
reality. So we have two types of mental models – “objective”and “subjective”, taking in account that the “objective” means the end of subjective reflection chain which starts from sensors and ends in the brain, i.e. it is subjective reflection of the objective
reality, the second is subjective reflection of subjective reality.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">Now, if INFOS can interconnect one mental model with another one(s) the first model receive meaning. If another interconnection is done, another meaning of the same model will exist.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">The interconnections are mental models, too.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">So, mental model with meaning is information.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Mental model without meaning is data.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">Maybe in the next letter I shall explain this on the base of the test bed.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Many thanks to all who read my post (more than 180 reads).</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">Be healthy and happy!</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">Friendly greetings</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Krassimir</font></div>
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<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a title="christophe.menant@hotmail.fr" href="mailto:christophe.menant@hotmail.fr">
Christophe Menant</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:29 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] defining information</div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt; border-top:windowtext 1pt; font-family:"inherit",serif; border-right:windowtext 1pt; border-bottom:windowtext 1pt; color:#201f1e; padding-bottom:0cm; padding-top:0cm; padding-left:0cm; border-left:windowtext 1pt; padding-right:0cm">Dear
FISers,<br>
Going through hard times should not stop us from exchanging ideas.<br>
My two cents: <br>
When trying to define information we should keep in mind that information exists to carry meanings and is used for meaning management. If there is no need for meanings, information does not have to exist.<br>
Assuming that we accept meaning as the core of information, we can reach some simple definitions like:<i> information is any energy variation that conveys meaning or participates to meaning generation.</i> (The former is about meaningful information, the latter
includes meaningless Information). This definition can be used for humans, animals and artificial agents. But it needs to explicit what is a meaning and what is meaning generation.
<br>
As we have already talked about, this has been done by proposing a model for meaning generation (the MGS) which allows to:<br>
- Define a meaning, a meaningful information, and tell what a meaning is for.<br>
- Relate meaning to agency and to constraint satisfaction.<br>
- Differentiate artificial agents from organic ones.<br>
- Define agency and autonomy.<br>
- Identify some limits of today AI .<br>
- Introduce evolutionary scenarios for cognition, intentionality and self-consciousness.<br>
- Highlight some possible sources of human mental health problems.<br>
This is more than we need to consider that defining information as a meaning carrier (with a definition of meaning) can be a valid option.
<br>
(a short paper at </span><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="https://philpapers.org/rec/MENITA-7"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:blue">https://philpapers.org/rec/MENITA-7</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12pt; border-top:windowtext 1pt; font-family:"inherit",serif; border-right:windowtext 1pt; border-bottom:windowtext 1pt; color:#201f1e; padding-bottom:0cm; padding-top:0cm; padding-left:0cm; border-left:windowtext 1pt; padding-right:0cm">
<span lang="EN-US">gives access to the above subjects). <br>
Let’s again recall that the proposed approach is an evolutionary one. It does not take information as managed by humans as a starting point. This is deliberate, in order to avoid having to consider human consciousness and free will in our starting point. These
human performances are complex and not clearly understood by science and philosophy. Taking them into account, even implicitly, would make our starting point unnecessarily complex. The choice made here is to start with a case as simple as possible (meaning
generation in animals) and look at human performances as the result of an evolutionary approach.
<br>
<br>
Hoping that you and your families are all well in the difficult times we are going through, I wish you the best.<br>
Christophe</span></span><br>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> de la part de Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> lundi 23 mars 2020 07:49<br>
<b>À :</b> Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner@bluewin.ch><br>
<b>Cc :</b> fis@listas.unizar.es >> fis@listas.unizar.es <fis@listas.unizar.es>; Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es>; Emanuel Diamant <emanl.245@gmail.com><br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Fis] defining information</font>
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">Carissimo Joseph,
<div>Ti ringrazio di cuore per il Tuo affettuoso augurio di buona salute alla mia famiglia. Grazie a Dio e anche agli uomini di buona
</div>
<div>capacita e volontà stiamo bene.</div>
<div>Mi permetto di scriverTi che, non solo secondo me, ma anche per il giudizio-pensiero di altri studiosi, molto più autorevoli del</div>
<div>sottoscritto:</div>
<div>* l'equilibrio (che sarebbe bene o meglio cambiare con armonia, anche del dis-accordo) può paragonarsi ad una tautologia</div>
<div>che al pari dell'ideologia è una falsa co-scienza; difatti l'equilibrio entropico è mortale, il dis-equilibrio neg-enropico è vitale;</div>
<div>* per quanto riguarda il rapporto tra energia e informazione, bisogna dire che l'energia libera non è altro che una forma di in-</div>
<div>formazione (neg-entropica), mentre l'energia degradata (non più trasformabile in lavoro utile o meccanico) non è altro che</div>
<div>una forma di dis-in-formazione (entropica);</div>
<div>* è necessario ricordare che v'ha un tempo per essere generalisti e un tempo per essere specialisti: quando si dà luogo ad
</div>
<div>un'iniziativa pregevole, preziosa e profetica come la FIS, nata per merito di Pedro, prima bisogna. essere generalisti e poi
</div>
<div>specialisti, sapendo che il prima serve il poi.</div>
<div>Carissimo Joseph, leggo sempre con molta attenzione i Tuoi autorevoli interventi-messaggi e sono sempre più convinto che solo</div>
<div>il rilancio della filosofia possa costituire la base onto-metodo-logica della definizione e della narrazione-processo della LEGGE
</div>
<div>DELL'INFORMAZIONE, senza trascurare la scienza mediatrice dell'economia.</div>
<div>DateVi e diamoci da fare, perché molta strada ancora bisogna percorrere e sperimentare.</div>
<div>Un abbraccio affettuoso a Te ed ai Tuoi cari, estensibile a Tutti, con l'amore della fede, della perseveranza e del coraggio.</div>
<div>Grazie, grazie, grazie.</div>
<div>Francesco.</div>
<div>.</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div class="x_x_gmail_quote">
<div class="x_x_gmail_attr" dir="ltr">Il giorno ven 20 mar 2020 alle ore 11:21 Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>> ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_x_gmail_quote" style="padding-left:1ex; margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<u></u><u></u>
<div lang="FR">
<div class="x_x_gmail-m_-4505537609629358338Section1">
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy">Dear Francesco,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy">Please let me first express the hope that you
and your family are in good health and in a safe configuration.<i><span style="font-style:italic">
<u></u><u></u></span></i></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><i><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy; font-style:italic"><u></u><u></u></span></font></i> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy">As to the content of your note, however, there
are a couple of things that I think need more discussion. I would not make the absolute cut made by Wheeler between energy and information, and I think that Prigogine did not pay enough attention to the complexity of processes
<i><span style="font-style:italic">close </span></i>to equilibrium.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy">On the other hand, I think that your formulation
of measure as a qualitative quantity or a quantitative quality implies exactly the kind of dialectical approach one should take to understanding information in
<i><span style="font-style:italic">its </span></i>complexity. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><i><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy; font-style:italic">Sta bene</span></font></i><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy">,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"; color:navy">Joseph<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:arial; color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:arial; color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma">
Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Francesco Rizzo<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> vendredi, 20 mars 2020 10:48<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Krassimir Markov<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> >> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a>; Pedro C. Marijuan; Emanuel Diamant<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] defining information</span></font><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Cari Pedro, Joseph, Krassimir, Terry e Tutti gli altri,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">tenendo presente quel che avete scritto in questi ultimi tempi, desidero dirVi alcune cose che potrebbero essere utili
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">per stabilire il quadro o scenario della discussione FIS, senza alcuna presunzione o pretesa.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">*Ciò che mi spinge a partecipare al confronto-dibattito è la mia teoria del valore (economico) basata sulla combinazione<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">creativa di energia, informazione e materia, sapendo che sia l'energia sia la materia sono forme di informazione; quindi<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">posso in sintesi affermare che la mia teoria sia basata sul valore dell'informazione o della tras-informazione (di cui la
FIS <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">nel passato s'è occupata): da quì il valore della forma o la forma del valore.
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">* Il grande fisico J. A. Wheeler, il guru della scienza dell'informazione che portò i buchi neri all'interno dell'analisi
fisico-astronomica, <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">sostiene che l'unica legge fondamentale della scienza naturale sia quella dell'informazione, non dell'energia o della materia.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">* Questo vale ancora di più per le scienze umane e sociali (di cui l'economia dovrebbe essere la regina).<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">* Allora bisogna concentrare l'attenzione sull'unità di ogni forma di sapere, rifacendoci alla Nuova Alleanza di Ilya Prigogine<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">che ha inventato-scoperto le "strutture dissipative che creano ordine dal disordine mediante fluttuazioni o instabilità";
questa è la fonte<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">di ogni informazione, sia delle scienze naturali che umane: il concetto di neg-entropia o informazione vitale di E. Schrodinger
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">la dice lunga in proposito.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">* Esistono tante categorie o forme di informazione: naturale o termodinamica, genetica o genomica, matematica o cibernetica,
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">semiotico-semantica. Esse possono rifarsi tutte allo stesso quadro definitorio: l'informazione è un processo che tende a
dare forma<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">a tutti e a tutto, dis-informazione è il contrario (cfr. Rizzo F., "Scienza dell'amore o amore della scienza", Aracne editrice,
Roma 2019,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">soprattutto i capitoli 2 e 3 dedicati a Socrate, Platone e Aristotele).<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">*Invece sono diverse le misure di queste tipologie di informazione che, tuttavia, possono supportare, grossomodo, la stessa
definizione.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">*Infine, ma potrei dire all'inizio, quel che non bisogna dimenticare è la lezione di scienza della logica che ci ha dato
G:W. Hegel: <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">fra i tanti suoi triangoli, consiglio quello che ai tre vertici porta qualità, quantità e misura: la misura è una quantità
qualitativa o una <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">qualità quantitativa. Questo consente di dosare (dialetticamente, direbbe il nostro filosofo) il dosaggio delle misurazioni
delle <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">diverse forme di informazione.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Sono stato più lungo di quanto prevedevo e Vi chiedo scusa anche per l'uso della mia lingua.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Un saluto affettuoso ed un augurio molto forte -- richiesto dai tempi in cui (la) corona (di un).virus ha un potere .demoniaco
-- al fine di<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">non abbassare la guardia.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Francesco<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Il giorno mar 17 mar 2020 alle ore 20:56 Krassimir Markov <<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" target="_blank">markov@foibg.com</a>>
ha scritto:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<blockquote style="border-top:medium none; border-right:medium none; border-bottom:medium none; padding-bottom:0cm; padding-top:0cm; padding-left:6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; border-left:rgb(204,204,204) 1pt solid; padding-right:0cm; margin-right:0cm">
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">Dear Pedro, Emanuel and FIS Colleagues,</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">1.Thank you for your remarks and interesting ideas.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">Especially those which are aimed to make our communication possible
in such situation like this in the world now.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">I have no information about plans and possibilities of our Brazilian
colleagues.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"> </span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">So,
please write more details.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">2. I agree with Emanuel that:
</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">The proposed definition of information must be followed by a suggestion of assets
that make it (the information) visible, tangible, palpable. </span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">It was my goal when I had proposed to prepare one or more test beds.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">3. According to this, now I want to invite you to see my preliminary
proposal of a sample test bed and evaluation tips for testing information definitions and theories.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">It is simple but, I hope, contains the main objects and their interactions,
which participate in the (humans’!) information processes.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">Of course, it is only one from many possible.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">If given definition or theory is not applicable to this test bed,
maybe it is possible another one to be proposed.</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">Please see
</span></font><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><a title="http://idr.ithea.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=37&topics_sort_mode=lastPost_desc&forumId=3" href="https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fidr.ithea.org%2Ftiki-view_forum_thread.php%3Fcomments_parentId%3D37%26topics_sort_mode%3DlastPost_desc%26forumId%3D3&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf637a7bca2144a22f0f708d7cef6818b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637205430433537719&sdata=xTapBEApzVF6ZDQEcMI4QFGCR039hh5HaYAZhG20zSM%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" shash="cxMoxJevdOB6aajg3H/O2sk661pdlaQktWd1qz2++lVotfLW+RsZ1LKebKyuwAoNaoDtsDobyK+WBaBBjPfgwTRKeZBUSKlNKyguFiQAjsHXVXHxjfNp83hy7pn5t5Gowx76EJUkJB7wIbhG+d2qe9X+m+XR5KKwv0COvtZE1D0=" originalsrc="http://idr.ithea.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=37&topics_sort_mode=lastPost_desc&forumId=3">http://idr.ithea.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=37&topics_sort_mode=lastPost_desc&forumId=3</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">Already registered colleagues may write directly in the Forum, other
may use FIS mailing list as usual.</span></font><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
</div>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">I whish you to be HEALTHY, HEALTHY, HEALTHY, .... !!!</span></font><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
</div>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">Friendly greetings</span></font><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:calibri; color:black">Krassimir</span></font><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
</div>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
</div>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;background:whitesmoke">
<b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; font-weight:bold; color:black">From:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black">
<a title="emanl.245@gmail.com" href="mailto:emanl.245@gmail.com" target="_blank">
Emanuel Diamant</a> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;background:whitesmoke">
<b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; font-weight:bold; color:black">Sent:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black">
Tuesday, March 10, 2020 5:16 PM<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;background:whitesmoke">
<b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; font-weight:bold; color:black">To:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black">
<a title="pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">
'Pedro C. Marijuan'</a> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;background:whitesmoke">
<b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; font-weight:bold; color:black">Cc:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black">
<a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;background:whitesmoke">
<b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; font-weight:bold; color:black">Subject:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:tahoma; color:black">
[Fis] defining information<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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</div>
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<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:calibri; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">Dear Pedro, Dear FIS colleagues,
</span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">I do not share the general excitement about the revitalization of the FIS discussion
on information definition. </span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">I am not sure that the principle of “three messages per week” or the ITHEA Cloud
Forum, with an </span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">unlimited number of posts and 1M-large attachments, is our main problem. I think
that our discussion (again and again) violates the basic principle of any scientific discourse - the IF-THEN principle - according to which each hypothetical assumption is followed by a suggestion what stems from it, where, and how these expectations could
be discerned and observed. If I remember right, Terence and Gordana on several previous occasions have addressed this issue, but their call has remained unanswered.</span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">However, refreshing the definitions of information we cannot continue to ignore
the IF-THEN rule requirement - How does the defined information look like, how it is represented, what is its real form? The proposed definition of information must be followed by a suggestion of assets that make it (the information) visible, tangible, palpable.
</span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">Only this kind of information definitions is being urgently needed in the worldwide
Human Brain Research programme. Or in the overhyped global Artificial Intelligence race. In both, Artificial Neural Networks (which are data processing number crunching devices) are supposed to emulate human brain biological neurons (which are pure information
processing devices). Both fail to fulfill their promises, but do not understand for what reason and why. The current FIS discussion certainly will not help them.</span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt; color:black">Regards, Emanuel.
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