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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Krassimir and FIS colleagues,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Most of the recent messages look in
Sync. The consensus points, under different names, towards
information as secondary, relative, undefinable... and
particularly towards the need, when defining it, of including the
context in which the definition is established. Personally I am
more interested in the concerns about empirical information
matters in different disciplines: we have heard snippets from
computer science, maths, biology, neuroscience (Jose Luis--could
you please send me that very interesting paper? It it is not an
open access) ... My traditional position is that the
"informational coupling" of life forms with the abduced parts of
their environment (signals, communication, etc.) in the
advancement of their own living cycle should be considered as the
proto-phenomenon of information. Agents, agency, are an
abstraction in other disciplines (computer science, economics)
derived from the former proto-phenomenon, unfortunately depriving
it of some of its most interesting qualities. So rich is in every
generative aspect: Conatus principle (Spinoza), fundamental coding
(Rosen), genetic algorithms (Holland), sel-constructing "machines"
(von Neumann), neural topodynamics (Friston)...<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The above central "informational
coupling" appears as valid along the complexity growth:
procaryots, eukaryots, multicells, nervous systems, societies...
in each of these realms, and in multiple ways, we can point to
"info definitions" and contexts tailored to the particular
phenomenology. From cellular signalling systems to the bonding
structures of our societies, or to the adaptive role of emotions.
For instance, I have various research papers on the intriguing
info content of laughter and its enigmatic relationship to the
life cycle (it is omnipresent in our lives). Why?? A neural
network can detect with more than 90% success from just a bunch of
your laughs whether you are falling in depression or not (Navarro
et al. 2014). Entropy of the frequencies involved is a major key.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Developing consistent empirical
research on information "caught in the act" is crucial.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best--Pedro<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 06/03/2020 a las 19:25, Krassimir
Markov escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DDD633E0826C49169FC56DE3AC211572@VaioMarkov">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Dear
Pedro and Colleagues,</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman"><font
size="4"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial">First of all, I apologize again to </span>Yixin
for asking postponing this discussion and to
Joseph for my silence in January. </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman"><font
size="4">As you all see now, this one is very
intensive and it was possible to interrupt the New
Year Lecture of Joseph. </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman"><font
size="4">In addition, Joseph had moderated it very
nice and we receive very good collection of
examples of disinformation, misinformation and
etc. </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman"><font
size="4">From my point of view, it is just what we
need now.</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Well,
let’s go further.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman"><font
size="4"><b>1. What is our goal</b> - to give one
or more definitions of concept “information” or to
establish useful information theories to be
applied to practical domains to understand and
solve real problems? </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">From
my point of view - the last is our goal. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Because
of this it doesn’t matter how much definitions we
will have. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">It
is important to see that the concrete definition may
be applied to a concrete domain to explain a
concrete phenomenon.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">In
other words, I expect to see examples as more as
possible.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman"><font
size="4"><b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family: arial">2. We need
methodological</span></b><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size:
9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: arial"> <b>knowledge</b>
to establish new concepts and theories. </span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">First
of all, we need to clear what kind is our new
concept - primary or secondary. </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
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align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Concerning
the concept “information”, it may be introduced as
a primary, as well as, as a secondary concept.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">If it
is a primary concept, it has to be introduces by
series of well known examples.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">If it
is a secondary concept, the primary concepts,
which will define it, need to be chosen precisely
and again to be introduced by corresponded series
of examples.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">For me,
the “information” is a secondary concept! </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">If we
assume it as a primary concept, it will be direct
way to well known concepts of “Got” and modern
variants, such as “Information-space-time
continuum”. </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">If one
believes in “Information”, he/she may explain many
of real phenomena. </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">But in
the same time, he/she will fall down in some kind
of dogma. (Dear Gordana, elections are the same
case!).</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong>3.
I propose to follow the next steps</strong> when
we propose definitions of “information”:</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">1) to
point clearly if it is a primary or a secondary
concept;</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">2) if
it is a primary concept, to stop further
discussion and to try to understand the examples
given by the author(s);</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">3) in
the second case, to introduce clearly the primary
concepts and step by step to present the theory.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong>4.
No problems if we will have many theories</strong>
for the same phenomenon. </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">It is
well known that, for instance, the Geometry is not
a single theory. </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">You may
know at least several geometries:</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="4">-
Euclidean (</font></font><a style="href:
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry""
moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="#0000ff"><font
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" size="4"
face="Times New Roman">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry</font></font></a><font
size="4" face="Times New Roman">);</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">-
Non-Euclidean: hyperbolic or elliptic (</font><a
style="href:
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry""
moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="#0000ff"><font
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" size="4"
face="Times New Roman">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry</font></font></a><font
size="4" face="Times New Roman">);</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">-
Spherical geometry (</font><a style="href:
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_geometry""
moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="#0000ff"><font
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" size="4"
face="Times New Roman">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_geometry</font></font></a><font
size="4" face="Times New Roman">),</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">etc.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman"><font
size="4"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial">This point of view, in 1993, I had
included in the name of the first ITHEA</span><sup><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size:
9.0pt">®</span></sup><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:
14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family: arial"> International
Journal calling it “Information Theories and
Applications” .</span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Friendly
greetings</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Krassimir</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt; TEXT-INDENT: 42.55pt"
align="justify"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14pt;
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family:
arial"></span> <br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
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