<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Karl, all,</div><div><br></div>Do we need a definition of "defining" first?<br><br>This is my effort:<br><br>"Defining is a process of seeking abstract principles which are generative not only of phenomena themselves, but of our narrative capacities for explaining them and our empirical faculties for exploring them."<div><br></div><div>Perhaps others can do better. </div><div><br>Is "Information" a phenomenon to be explained - for which a set of generative abstract principles are sought? <br><br>Or is "Information" the process we are in as we seek generative abstract principles?</div><div><div><br></div><div>I find myself thinking the latter. I think we can (and will) get better generative abstract principles. But not from where we are standing at the moment.</div><div><br></div><div>The distinction between "explanandum" and "explanans" must at least in the first instance be clarified. But it is worth noting that neither of those ancient terms addresses the process of performing them. We need a different kind of language. </div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div><br>Mark<br><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 11:52, Karl Javorszky <<a href="mailto:karl.javorszky@gmail.com">karl.javorszky@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>A rational definition of information</b> <span> </span><span> </span>(20200307)<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Semantic description of the meaning of the term
information<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Information is understood to relate to the framework,
background of the assertion. That, what is the case, is imbedded in such surroundings,
to which that what is the case, contrasts. Information relates to that, what we
do not focus on, such parts of the stage, which are not highlighted. In this
sense, information is the description of the remaining alternatives, of that
what is not the case. This property of the mental construct information makes
it so complicated and tricky to get a clear definition of the concept: as we
want to investigate that, what remains in the half-shade or shade, we cannot
avoid directing the torch of our intellect towards the subject to be
investigated, therefore removing it from the half-shade or shade.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Information, definition of<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>a.: semantic<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The sentence <span> </span><span></span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:198.2pt;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="264" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><i>It was Peter who did it</i><span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:254.9pt;border-color:windowtext windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-width:1pt 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="340" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>is a statement
and contains no information<i><span></span></i></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The sentence <span> </span><span></span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:198.2pt;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="264" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><i>It was Peter, from among {Peter, Paul, Susan, Mary}, who
did it <span></span></i></p>
</td>
<td style="width:254.9pt;border-color:windowtext windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-width:1pt 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="340" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>contains the information
<b><i>{Paul, Susan, Mary} did not do it </i></b><span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>b: formal<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The sentence <span> </span><span></span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:198.2pt;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="264" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Let <i>x = a<sub>k</sub></i><span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:254.9pt;border-color:windowtext windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-width:1pt 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="340" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>is a statement
and contains no information<i><span></span></i></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The sentence <span> </span><span></span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:198.2pt;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="264" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Let <i>x = a<sub>k</sub></i>
and <i>k </i><i><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span>Î</span></span>
{1,2,...,k,...,n}<span><span></span></span></i></p>
</td>
<td style="width:254.9pt;border-color:windowtext windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-width:1pt 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="340" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>contains the information
</span><b><i>k </i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span>Ï</span></span> {1,2,...,k-1,k+1,...,n}</i></b><span><span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Information, semantic examples<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">We watch a group consisting of <i>Alma, Bella, Cesar,
Daniel.<span></span></i></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:141.5pt;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="189" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b><i>x = a<sub>k</sub></i><span></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="width:311.6pt;border-color:windowtext windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-width:1pt 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="415" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b><i>k </i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span>Ï</span></span> {1,2,...,k-1,k+1,...,n}</i><span></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:141.5pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="189" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Cesar does the cooking today<span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:311.6pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="415" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The other three can go out;<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">It is undecided, who among A,B,D will do the dishes<span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:141.5pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="189" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Bella got arrested<span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:311.6pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="415" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">That will be the talk among A,C,D<span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:141.5pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="189" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Daniel deceived us all<span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:311.6pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="415" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">We shall build an alliance; we are a natural alliance<span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:141.5pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="189" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Alma can’t leave poets and composers alone<span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:311.6pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="415" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If you need someone with moral rectitude, ask for any of
us.<span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">We observe the assignment of a symbol of assertion to 1 of
the elements in a group of 4, which leaves the remaining 3 elements being assigned
a symbol of negation. One will find using the notation of <i>(1,3) </i>practical for the above examples.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>(Assertion, negation) : (inclusion, exclusion) : (is the
case, remaining alternatives)<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The notation <i>(n<sub>1</sub>,n<sub>2</sub>)
(where n<sub>1</sub> + n<sub>2 = </sub>n) </i>is a description of the
informational value of an assertion. It has <b>two values. </b>The concept is
well known in test theory,<b> </b>where we speak of item discrimination
characteristics.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Extracting information by using double negation<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The systematics presented here allows integrating the
so-called Shannon school of information, by showing that the Shannon concept is
but a simple, degenerated, trivial special case of the general principle expressed
here. If we possess a symbol set of <i>{0,1},
</i>then <i>0 </i>is “<i>not among those which are different to 0 /are not 0/”</i> and <i>1</i><span>
is</span><i> “not among those which are not
1 /are different to 1/)” <span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The logical operators are <i>{same, different}</i> and <i>{included,
excluded}. </i>For organisms that possess a memory, the <i>{included, excluded} </i>property is but a variant of the <i>{same, different} </i>property of
constituents of perception.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Relevance for calculation of properties of informational processes
in Nature<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The approach of using the “remaining alternatives” method
for modelling processes of Nature stands and falls with the availability of a
catalogue of alternatives, of which always some remain. This is no problem, as
we consider that processes of Nature are <b>periodic, </b>at least those which
we experience on this here planet we inhabit.<b> </b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Periodic processes consist of a limited number of distinct
states, which follow each other in a strict sequence. In the following example,
we shall speak of the periodic changes caused by the rotation of the Earth,
using the notation D/N for day/night changes, and of the periodic changes
caused by the movements of the Moon, using the notation H/L for high and low
tide.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>To be well ordered<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Let us imagine a collection of some proto-somethings that
are dissolved in a small niche in the sea. The things will become adapted to
their surroundings by being ordered according to the ordering principle D/N.
Concurrently, the things will become adapted to their surroundings by being
ordered according to the ordering principle H/L, also. For the argument’s sake,
we shall assume that being optimally ordered for the changes coming from
day/night will be different to that order, which is optimal for the changes coming
from the tides.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Concurrent ordering requirements<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Some of the learned friends here will remember that the term
<b>cycles </b>had already been mentioned a few times in this excellent chat
room. Cycles appear as movement patterns and as constitutors of groups of
elements (members of the corpus of the cycle) which move together during a
resequencing. The corpus of the cycle contains elements which share the common
symbol of the cycle, and also symbols that are sequential, depicting the strict
sequence in which the members of the corpus follow each other during a
resequencing.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The proto-somethings that are subject to both D/N and H/L
periodic changes will inevitably fall into cycles during the reorders that are
the consequences of the periodic processes: day/night and high/low tide. The
paths created by the cycles remain unchanged for millions and billions of
repetitions of identical rearrangements. One can well speak of a stable
collection of possible states the collection of the proto-somethings are in.
Here we have the collection of remaining alternatives, that is: an environment
with information content.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Variations on a theme by Nature<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The re-arrangements of the elements of the collection of
proto-somethings are in principle all alike. Yet, their appearance may have a
wide range of varieties. This comes from two main causes:<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">a. differing numbers of elements in the corpora: this causes
appearances of faster /slower changes within sub-systems of one and the same
system;<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">b. differing offsets causing differing collections of
elements to be contemporaneous: this causes appearances of types and
individuals among the realisations.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b>Closing remarks<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">One would wish for the mechanics behind the Laws of Nature
to be more in accordance with our imaginations about, how a self-evident,
self-explanatory set of interdependences of rules will look like.
Unfortunately, sequencing has to do with sequences, and these deal with order
and changes of places. The pictures arising from re-ordering mental concepts
can cause some inner disturbances, the more so for learned friends who are used
to the idea that they have their mental concepts in the best order possible,
and any re-arrangements can only be irritating. Let me end on an encouraging
note: once one has accepted the thought, that properties and order determine
places, the underlying mechanism of wheels, cogs, belts, valves and pistons
creates a highly fascinating and educative inner entertainment. Good luck!</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Karl<br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:150%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></p>
</div>
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INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Dr. Mark William Johnson<br>Institute of Learning and Teaching<br>Faculty of Health and Life Sciences<br>University of Liverpool<br><br>Phone: 07786 064505<br>Email: <a href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</a><br>Blog: <a href="http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com</a></div></div></div></div>