<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Josephe -<div>regarding: <span style="color:rgb(0,0,128);font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';font-size:14.6667px;line-height:22px">Information in progress/as process has too many non-linear, partly </span><i style="color:rgb(0,0,128);font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';font-size:14.6667px;line-height:22px">a-</i><span style="color:rgb(0,0,128);font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';font-size:14.6667px;line-height:22px">logical characteristics, partly irrational and contradictory, to be imprisoned in this way.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,128);font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';font-size:14.6667px;line-height:22px"> S: "This way" includes the specification hierarchy {constraint {information {eaning}}}. I would assert that frequently constraints would have hese characteristics.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,128);font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';font-size:14.6667px;line-height:22px">st</span></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 4:18 AM Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="FR">
<div class="gmail-m_2266243174824389575Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">Dear
Krassimir, Dear All,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">With due respect to colleagues who have collated former concepts of
information, I continue to feel they have been inadequate. This is why
Krassimir’s call for new concepts and theories, even if it has been made
before, is more valuable and should be followed-up. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">I myself have presented, again, a new concept which has not yet
received discussion: it is that views of information as constituted by a
certain of numerical and/or semantic ‘particles’ does not reflect either its
structure or its function. If this is not tenable, then at least I think I, as would
everyone on this list, have a right to know why.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">Terry and Gordana, as well as Stan, have attempted to ‘capture’
information within the stiff, formal brackets of the subsumption hierarchy,
investigated most thoroughly by Stan.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">I have claimed and will continue to claim that this is impossible. Information
in progress/as process has too many non-linear, partly <i><span style="font-style:italic">a-</span></i>logical characteristics, partly
irrational and contradictory, to be imprisoned in this way. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">I would like to ask Krassimir, if information is defined as I have
above, if he would still consider it ‘secondary’? Or, rather, whether the use of
something like my concepts, if improved of course, would enable recovery of the
concept of information for more serious use? One of the signs of such additional
seriousness would be the use of examples for analysis and discussion that are
not the simplest predicate-object sentences. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">Thank you and best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy">Joseph<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode';color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">
Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Krassimir Markov<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> vendredi, 6 mars 2020 19:26<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> FIS<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [Fis] defining
information - Goal, Methodology, Steps ...</span></font><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-style:italic">Spring Season Greetings
!</span></font></i><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-style:italic">С Наступающей Весной !</span></font></i><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-style:italic">Честита Баба Марта!</span></font></i><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><img width="130" height="136" id="gmail-m_2266243174824389575_x0000_i1025" src="cid:170b6a60c1c4cdccc2" style="border-width: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; background-image: none;" alt="clip_image002" title="clip_image002" border="0"></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Dear
Pedro and Colleagues,</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">First
of all, I apologize again to </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Yixin for asking postponing this
discussion and to Joseph for my silence in January. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">As
you all see now, this one is very intensive and it was possible to interrupt
the New Year Lecture of Joseph. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">In
addition, Joseph had moderated it very nice and we receive very good collection
of examples of disinformation, misinformation and etc. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">From
my point of view, it is just what we need now.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Well,
let’s go further.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">1. What is our goal</span></font></b><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> - to give one or
more definitions of concept “information” or to establish useful information
theories to be applied to practical domains to understand and solve real
problems? </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">From
my point of view - the last is our goal. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Because
of this it doesn’t matter how much definitions we will have. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">It
is important to see that the concrete definition may be applied to a concrete
domain to explain a concrete phenomenon.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">In
other words, I expect to see examples as more as possible.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">2. We need methodological</span></font></b><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">knowledge</span></b> to establish new concepts and
theories. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">First
of all, we need to clear what kind is our new concept - primary or secondary. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Concerning
the concept “information”, it may be introduced as a primary, as well as, as a
secondary concept.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">If
it is a primary concept, it has to be introduces by series of well known
examples.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">If
it is a secondary concept, the primary concepts, which will define it, need to
be chosen precisely and again to be introduced by corresponded series of
examples.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">For
me, the “information” is a secondary concept! </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">If we assume it as a primary concept, it will be direct way to
well known concepts of “Go</span></font><font size="4" color="navy"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:navy">d</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">” and modern
variants, such as “Information-space-time continuum”. </span></font><font color="black"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">If
one believes in “Information”, he/she may explain many of real phenomena. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">But
in the same time, he/she will fall down in some kind of dogma. (Dear Gordana,
elections are the same case!).</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><strong><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">3. I propose to follow the next steps</span></font></b></strong><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> when we propose
definitions of “information”:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">1)
to point clearly if it is a primary or a secondary concept;</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">2)
if it is a primary concept, to stop further discussion and to try to understand
the examples given by the author(s);</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">3)
in the second case, to introduce clearly the primary concepts and step by step
to present the theory.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><strong><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">4. No problems if we will have many theories</span></font></b></strong><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> for the same
phenomenon. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">It
is well known that, for instance, the Geometry is not a single theory. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">You
may know at least several geometries:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">-
Euclidean (</span></font><font size="4" color="blue"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry</a></span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">);</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">-
Non-Euclidean: hyperbolic or elliptic (</span></font><font size="4" color="blue"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry</a></span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">);</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">-
Spherical geometry (</span></font><font size="4" color="blue"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_geometry" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_geometry</a></span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">),</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">etc.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">This
point of view, in 1993, I had included in the name of the first ITHEA</span></font><sup><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">®</span></font></sup><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> International
Journal calling it “Information Theories and Applications” .</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Friendly
greetings</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Krassimir</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">PS:
<strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">The situation with many definitions we
have now is not new</font></b></strong>. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">For
instance, in a letter written to Philip Jourdain in <strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">1914</font></b></strong>, Gottlob Frege had written:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">“Let us suppose an explorer travelling in an unexplored
country sees a high snow-capped mountain on the northern horizon.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">By making inquiries among the natives he learns that its
name is <strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">'Aphla'</font></b></strong>. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">By sighting it from different points he determines its
position as exactly as possible, enters it in a map, and writes in his diary:
'Aphla is at least 5000 meters high'.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Another explorer sees a snow-capped mountain on the
southern horizon and learns that it is called <strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">Ateb</font></b></strong>. He enters it in his map under
this name.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Later comparison shows that both explorers saw the same
mountain. Now the content of the proposition 'Ateb is Aphla' is far from being
a mere consequence of the principle of identity, but contains a valuable piece
of geographical knowledge. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">What is stated in the proposition 'Ateb is Aphla' is
certainly not the same thing as the content of the proposition 'Ateb is Ateb'.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Now if what corresponded to the name 'Aphla' as part of the
thought was the reference of the name and hence the mountain itself, then this
would be the same in both thoughts. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">The thought expressed in the proposition 'Ateb is Aphla'
would have to coincide with the one in 'Ateb is Ateb', which is far from being
the case. What corresponds to the name 'Ateb' as part of the thought must
therefore be different from what corresponds to the name 'Aphla' as part of the
thought. This cannot therefore be the reference which is the same for both
names, but must be something which is different in the two cases, and I say
accordingly that the sense of the name 'Ateb' is different from the sense of
the name 'Aphla'.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Accordingly, the sense of the proposition 'Ateb is at least
5000 meters high' is also different from the sense of the proposition 'Aphla is
at least 5000 meters high'. Someone who takes the latter to be true need not
therefore take the former to be true. An object can be determined in different
ways, and every one of these ways of determining it can give rise to a special
name, and these different names then have different senses; for it is not
self-evident that it is the same object which is being determined in different
ways.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">We find this in astronomy in the case of planetoids and
comets. Now if the sense of a name was something subjective, then the sense of
the proposition in which the name occurs, and hence the thought, would also be
something subjective, and the thought one man connects with this proposition
would be different from the thought another man connects with it; a common
store of thoughts, a common science would be impossible.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">It would be impossible for something one man said to
contradict what another man said, because the two would not express the same
thought at all, but each his owns.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">For these reasons I believe that the sense of a name is not
something subjective (crossed out: in one's mental life), that it does not
therefore belong to psychology, and that it is indispensable” [Frege, 1980].</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><strong><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">What is important in this example</span></font></b></strong><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> is [Ivanova et
al, 2013c]:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:60.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:black">―</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">
</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">The names Ateb and Aphla refer different parts of the same natural
object (mountain, let call it <i><span style="font-style:italic">Pirrin</span></i>);</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:60.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:black">―</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">
</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">The position of the referred object (mountain) is fixed by any
artificial system (geographical co-ordinates, address) which is another name of
the same object;</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:60.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:black">―</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">
</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">The names and the address correspond one to another and both to
the real object but without the </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">explorer’s</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> map, respectively – the
</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">explorer’s </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">diary, it is impossible to restore the
correspondence;</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:60.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:black">―</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">
</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">At the end, the names </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Ateb and Aphla</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> are connected
hierarchically to the name </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Pirrin and the relations are:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:96.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:'Courier New';color:black">o</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Aphla <i><span style="font-style:italic">is_a_South_Side_of</span></i> Pirrin;</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:96.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:'Courier New';color:black">o</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Ateb <i><span style="font-style:italic">is_a_North_Side_of </span></i>Pirrin.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">The
last case forms a simple vocabulary:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div align="center">
<table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none">
<tbody><tr>
<td valign="top" style="border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:14pt"><i><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-style:italic">name</span></font></i><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-style:solid solid solid none;border-top-color:windowtext;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-top-width:1pt;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:initial;border-left-color:initial;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:14pt"><i><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-style:italic">definition</span></font></i><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-left-color:windowtext;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;border-top-width:initial;border-top-color:initial;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14pt"><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">Aphla</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-width:initial;border-top-color:initial;border-left-width:initial;border-left-color:initial;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:windowtext;border-right-width:1pt;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">The South
Side of Pirrin mountain</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-left-color:windowtext;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;border-top-width:initial;border-top-color:initial;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14pt"><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">Ateb </span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-width:initial;border-top-color:initial;border-left-width:initial;border-left-color:initial;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:windowtext;border-right-width:1pt;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">The North
Side of Pirrin mountain</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:windowtext;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-left-color:windowtext;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;border-top-width:initial;border-top-color:initial;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14pt"><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;font-weight:bold">Pirrin</span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-top-width:initial;border-top-color:initial;border-left-width:initial;border-left-color:initial;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:windowtext;border-right-width:1pt;padding:5.65pt 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">A mountain
in the </span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">unexplored country with co-ordinates (x,y)</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">In
addition, all cases given above form a simple <strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">ontology</font></b></strong> with four concepts which
may be represented by a graph diagram:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><img width="644" height="248" id="gmail-m_2266243174824389575_x0000_i1026" src="cid:170b6a60c1b5af44d1" style="border-width: 0px; display: inline; margin: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; background-image: none;" alt="image" title="image" border="0"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><a name="m_2266243174824389575__toc513903294"></a><a name="m_2266243174824389575__ref340949636"></a><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">For those who
are familiar with Theory of categories, it is clear that <strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">this diagram is commutative and represents a Category</font></b></strong>.
</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">This
gives us the idea that <strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">the concept
“information” could be defined using the Category theory</font></b></strong>. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><strong><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Yep, one more definition!!!</span></font></b></strong><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Dear
Gordana and Christophe, please don’t worry - of course it takes in account the
agent’s mind. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">But
this is for another letter </span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Wingdings"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:black">J</span></font><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> ...</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><strong><b><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">References</span></font></b></strong><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_2266243174824389575msobibliography" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">[Frege, 1980] Frege G., “An extract from
an undated letter”, published in Frege's Philosophical and Mathematical
Correspondence (ed.) Gottfried Gabriel, Hans Hermes. Friedrich Kanbartel.
Christian Thiel, and Albert Veraart, Abridged for the English (edn.), by Brian
MeGuinness, and Trans. Hans Kaal (Oxford: Blackwell. 1980), <a href="http://mind.ucsd.edu/syllabi/00-01/phil235/a_readings/frege_jourdain.html" target="_blank">http://mind.ucsd.edu/syllabi/00-01/phil235/a_readings/frege_jourdain.html</a>
(accessed: 15.11.2012).</span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_2266243174824389575msobibliography" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-indent:42.55pt;line-height:14pt"><font size="4" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">[Ivanova et al, 2013c] Krassimira B.
Ivanova, Koen Vanhoof, Krassimir Markov, Vitalii Velychko, “<i><span style="font-style:italic">Storing Dictionaries and Thesauruses Using
NL-Addressing</span></i>”, International Journal "Information Models and
Analyses" Vol.2, Number 3, 2013, ISSN 1314-6416 (printed),
1314-6432(online), pp. 239 - 251.</span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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L'absence de virus dans ce courrier electronique a ete verifiee par le logiciel antivirus Avast.
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