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<body><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div><div id="x6f796951a0a94332b0bc330a27cf242c"><div lang="FR" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt;">How do the code and progress of science
‘operate’? Also, falseness is not restricted only to leaders.
Finally, for better understanding, Louis XIV may well be called the Great King
of the codification, but the contrast with Caligula is not warranted since I
did not claim such a role for him. For me, a theory of falsehood, as of
disinformation, begins with intent.</span></font></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br /></div><div>I mentioned Louis XIV because during the 18th century and mainly in France one can witness the construction of state apparatuses which rely on the organization of knowledge; for example, in hospitals and engineering. In the earlier period, deviant opinion could easily be considered as heresy. This changes, when the communication of knowledge becomes focal: <em style="font-size: 12pt;">Du choc des opinion jaillit la vérité</em>!</div><div><br /></div><div>Best,</div><div>Loet</div><div id="signature_old"><div id="x3056ca74df66477"><div id="x78c9f4c0540648e7b564d127ae9a7d74"><div><div id="signature_old"><div id="x068ffe68e305459"><div id="xd031ae4a00354d21ab008b16080cd048"><div><br /></div><div id="signature_old"><div id="x4f407acb80d4411"><div id="x775eaf3ae7f6460082dcdda3faf877c6"><div id="signature_old"><div id="x920d19d74fc84b0"><div id="x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74">
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center" />
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Loet
Leydesdorff <o:p xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Professor emeritus,
University of Amsterdam<br />
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<o:p xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span style="color:#44546A"><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">loet@leydesdorff.net </span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">; </span><span style="color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <br />
</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Associate Faculty, </span><span style="color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">SPRU, </span></a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">University of Sussex; <o:p xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Guest Professor </span><span style="color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, </span><span style="color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">ISTIC, </span></a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Beijing;<o:p xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Visiting Fellow, </span><span style="color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/"><span style="font-size:
9.0pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">,
University of London; <o:p xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></o:p></span></p>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:
Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;color:#44546A;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</a></span></span></div><div id="x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"><span style="color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><div id="x6d48cd6784e049409ff4972e00ee71a6"><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"></div>
<div><div><font face="Calibri" style="font-size: 9pt;">ORCID: <a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098">http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098</a>;</font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </font></div></div><div id="signature_old" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div id="x4f407acb80d4411"><div id="x775eaf3ae7f6460082dcdda3faf877c6"><div id="signature_old"><div id="x920d19d74fc84b0"><div id="x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div><div id="x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br /></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Joseph Brenner" <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>></div>
<div>To: "fis" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div>Cc: <a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a></div>
<div>Sent: 1/23/2020 4:27:09 PM</div>
<div>Subject: [Fis] LECTURE RESPONSES UP TO 23.01.20</div><div><br /></div>
<div id="x3ac1b0035ca3408"><blockquote cite="64956C4555DB42F68AD13A3635CDB46B@laptopr7q1bsbb" type="cite" class="cite2">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Dear Friends and Colleagues,<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Herewith as promised is my second group of
comments. Since there are some things with which I can agree in most responses,
they will be indexed D/A, rather than D. Rather than separate them for another
later group, I have also included comments with which I agree, designated A2.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">I look forward to your responses as the basis
for the final phase of the discussion.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Thank you and best wishes,<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Joseph<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">D/A.1 03.01 Michel
was quite positive on the intent of the Lecture, and I accept his thanks. I
placed his comments in this category simply because I felt he was arguing from
examples that were too binary, such as optical illusions.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">A2.1 Mark’s emphasis in this note on communication and
complexity and its ‘management’ are right on. It can and will be
included in the final summary of possible FIS ‘actions’.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""> </span></font><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">D/A.2 18.01 As Loet knows, I have great respect for his theory of
communication. I just think his critique of the notion of truth could have been
stated more positively. How do the code and progress of science
‘operate’? Also, falseness is not restricted only to leaders.
Finally, for better understanding, Louis XIV may well be called the Great King
of the codification, but the contrast with Caligula is not warranted since I
did not claim such a role for him. For me, a theory of falsehood, as of
disinformation, begins with intent.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">A2.3<font color="navy"> 18.01 Stan points correctly to the
dialectics of modern art, where distortions are ‘false’, markers of
an artist’s sensibility. Photography in contrast is
‘correct’, but can itself be manipulated as disinformation. Art is
not disinformation, however, since there is no intent to deceive for material
gain. <o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></font></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">A2.4 20.01 Again, I take from this comment by Pedro on the parallel
‘communication’ thread the need to refocus on disinformation and
the possibility of its detection.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">D/A.3 21.01 I (Joseph) accept the rebuke of Pedro and an off-line member
of the group. The latter stated that my tone was ‘Fascist’. In
agreeing, with apologies, I note that an ‘anti-Fascist’ manifesto can
still have a Fascist tone, to be avoided. My criticism of cultural relativism
still stands for further discussion.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">A.4 22.01 Terry’s note goes to the heart of intent and its
complexity. I tend to think that ‘cultural-hyper-relativism’, produced
with the intention <i>only </i>to
persuade and not to mislead is mis-information, but is probably quite rare.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">His second point comes back to the problem of markers for
disinformation or rather disinforming. It will add to the body of comments
along these lines.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">A.5 22.01 Pedro discusses how disinformation can arise in
situations involving large bodies of knowledge as well as the new media, which
overlap. There is a link to emotional reactions to, I suppose, both information
annd disinformation that in and of itself may be a form of disinformation,
depending as always, as I see it, on intent. <o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">D.1 22.01 I (Joseph) regret that Krassimir not taken just one fact
and given his expert analysis of it. As to some comments by others being at the
‘wiki-level’, that seems a polite and accurate way of describing
them. <o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy">I do not see, however, without further discussion which I hope he
will provide, how a theory that describes the relations of mathematical
entities (morphisms) and ways of mapping between them (functors) can apply to
information process phenomena. A structure is not necessarily a static entity. The
term meta- is used in the sense of both ‘about’ and ‘beyond’;
especially in the second use, I do not see a requirement for the principle,
from category theory, of exclusivity and exhaustivity. There is no need for
absolute separation between, say, between physics and metaphysics. I think there
is a lot more to be said about the dynamic structure of information and
disinformation in this sense because I see in it the possibility for new
markers for disinformation. I hope this justifies my having gone to this
length.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></font></p>
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