<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:MingLiU;
panose-1:2 2 5 9 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Avenir Book";
panose-1:2 0 5 3 2 0 0 2 0 3;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Arial Narrow";
panose-1:2 11 6 6 2 2 2 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MingLiU";
panose-1:2 1 6 9 0 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
h4
{mso-style-priority:9;
mso-style-link:"Heading 4 Char";
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.Heading4Char
{mso-style-name:"Heading 4 Char";
mso-style-priority:9;
mso-style-link:"Heading 4";
font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;
color:#2F5496;
font-style:italic;}
p.department, li.department, div.department
{mso-style-name:department;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.phone, li.phone, div.phone
{mso-style-name:phone;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.mobile, li.mobile, div.mobile
{mso-style-name:mobile;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.addr, li.addr, div.addr
{mso-style-name:addr;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="SV" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">Dear Professor Zhong,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">Thank you very much for your insightful comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">I agree very much with the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">“ all the ‘definitions’ mentioned above have certain demerits. Firstly, for example, the concept of entropy in Shannon Information
Theory and Wiener’s Cybernetics is <i>based on the probability theory whereas information is not limited to statistical category</i>. Secondly, the concept of ‘variety’ seems much too simple and it cannot distinguish two events having same number of elements
and different weights associated to each of the elements. Thirdly, the concept of ‘difference that make difference’ is also not perfect because of the fact that
<span style="color:black">‘no difference’ does not mean ‘no information’. As a matter of fact, ‘no difference’ itself does give informa</span>tion. “</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">You point out the necessity of making distinctions between different approaches to information/definitions of information and elucidating what they imply and under what
conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">It is indeed an excellent observation that ‘no difference’ does not mean ‘no information’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">It seems to me that even here we must make distinction between two types of information, or at least two phases in the information processing. Bateson looks at the first
stage: observing information from the outside world.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">Or, as Aaron Sloman explains here
<a href="https://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/misc/information-difference.html">
https://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/misc/information-difference.html</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:black">”Bateson described not "information" but "a bit of information" and later "the elementary unit of information" as
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">"a difference that makes a difference". He did this in at least two of the essays, namely in "The Cybernetics of 'Self': A Theory of Alcoholism" and in "Form Substance and Difference".”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">I used to quote Bateson, writing
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">"Information is a difference that makes a difference" (for an agent).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">Information for a human is typically no information for a bacterium, and it is never the same kind of information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066">For even if bacterium registers rise in temperature it will not relate it to global warming.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#000066"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">There is a world outside an observer and the first excitation of its neural networks corresponds to the difference in the world
that is observed (that makes the difference in the observer). But then we have our memory, with knowledge, information and data, which supports anticipations, predictions and reasoning in general.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">We immediately attach meanings to that which we have identified/perceived. That is the stage where we can say: I am observing this
object (a traffic light) that should have changed (color), but nothing happens. It (probably) means it is broken. So, no change means information. But to come to this step we make a second order difference between observed world and expected/projected one.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">How much do we know about the relationship between the first stage, noticing things in the world, meaning “no difference”, and
the second order information deduced in the next step (what that implies)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">When do we start using different pieces of information to start reasoning? Should information perceived and information deduced
be treated as two different types of information, or stages in the processing of information. Shall we conclude that Bateson’s definition has also its given domain of validity and should not be stretched outside of it? As we know for information in Shannon’s
model of communication and need to understand for all other definitions as well.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Happy Chinese New Year to you and all our colleagues from China!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Gordana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:18.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly"><span style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:black">钟义</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:black">信</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
<zyx@bupt.edu.cn><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 24 January 2020 at 08:47<br>
<b>To: </b>Joeseph Brenner <joe.brenner@bluewin.ch>, Pedro <pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es><br>
<b>Cc: </b>fis <fis@listas.unizar.es>, marcinschroeder <mjs@aiu.ac.jp>, "Terrence W.DEACON" <deacon@berkeley.edu>, Gordana CHALMERS <gordana.dodig-crnkovic@chalmers.se>, Mark Burgin <markburg@cs.ucla.edu>,
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:black">闫</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:black">学衫</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <yxs@pku.cn>,
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:black">邬</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">q <wukun@mail.xjtu.edu.cn>,
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:black">陈</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:black">志成</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <czc0910@163.com>, wolfganghofkirchner
<wolfgang.hofkirchner@is4si.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Discussion on Disinformation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Joseph, Dear Pedro, Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The text in attachment is my response to the discussions on disinformation, which has been carried on for weeks. I hope it useful.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif;color:#909090"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-right:solid #DEDEDE 1.0pt;padding:0cm 8.0pt 0cm 0cm;margin-top:26.25pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-bottom:7.5pt;float:left">
<div style="margin-top:26.25pt;max-height: 150px;float:left;overflow:hidden">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Prof. Zhong Y. X.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Center for Intelligence Science Research<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Beijing University of Posts & Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm"><img border="0" width="32" height="32" style="width:.3333in;height:.3333in" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:~WRD000.jpg" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<h4 style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:21.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:black">钟义</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:black">信</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></h4>
<p class="department" style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:16.5pt">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#A0A0A0">北京</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:#A0A0A0">邮电</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#A0A0A0">大学</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#A0A0A0">/</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#A0A0A0">教</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:#A0A0A0">职</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#A0A0A0">工</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#A0A0A0">/</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:MingLiU;color:#A0A0A0">计</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#A0A0A0">算机学院</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#A0A0A0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="mobile" style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:16.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#A0A0A0">13701230645<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="addr" style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:16.5pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#A0A0A0">北京</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#A0A0A0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>