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<DIV>Dear Joseph,</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you for the answer.!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think in the future discussions we may clear the usefulness of
mathematical models for information theories.</DIV>
<DIV>Especially for programmers the Theory of categories is very useful.
</DIV>
<DIV>I teach it just to software engineers (second year bachelors).</DIV>
<DIV>A lot of bibliography on this topic exists, for instance:</DIV>
<DIV>Category Theory for Computing Science </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.math.mcgill.ca/triples/Barr-Wells-ctcs.pdf">http://www.math.mcgill.ca/triples/Barr-Wells-ctcs.pdf</A>
</DIV>
<DIV>or </DIV>
<DIV>Basic Category Theory for Computer Scientists (Foundations of
Computing)</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="https://www.amazon.com/Category-Computer-Scientists-Foundations-Computing/dp/0262660717">https://www.amazon.com/Category-Computer-Scientists-Foundations-Computing/dp/0262660717</A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Now it is time for this discussion, which, I think, is a good starting
point for further analysis.</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you for the nice work and professional moderating it!</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Friendly greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Krassimir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>From: Joseph Brenner </DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 5:27 PM</DIV>
<DIV>To: fis </DIV>
<DIV>Cc: pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es </DIV>
<DIV>Subject: [Fis] LECTURE RESPONSES UP TO 23.01.20</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dear Friends and Colleagues,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Herewith as promised is my second group of comments. Since there are some
things with which I can agree in most responses, they will be indexed D/A,
rather than D. Rather than separate them for another later group, I have also
included comments with which I agree, designated A2.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I look forward to your responses as the basis for the final phase of the
discussion.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you and best wishes,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joseph</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>D/A.1 03.01 Michel was quite positive on the intent of the Lecture, and I
accept his thanks. I placed his comments in this category simply because I felt
he was arguing from examples that were too binary, such as optical
illusions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A2.1 Mark’s emphasis in this note on communication and complexity and its
‘management’ are right on. It can and will be included in the final summary of
possible FIS ‘actions’.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>D/A.2 18.01 As Loet knows, I have great respect for his theory of
communication. I just think his critique of the notion of truth could have been
stated more positively. How do the code and progress of science ‘operate’? Also,
falseness is not restricted only to leaders. Finally, for better understanding,
Louis XIV may well be called the Great King of the codification, but the
contrast with Caligula is not warranted since I did not claim such a role for
him. For me, a theory of falsehood, as of disinformation, begins with
intent.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A2.3 18.01 Stan points correctly to the dialectics of modern art, where
distortions are ‘false’, markers of an artist’s sensibility. Photography in
contrast is ‘correct’, but can itself be manipulated as disinformation. Art is
not disinformation, however, since there is no intent to deceive for material
gain. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A2.4 20.01 Again, I take from this comment by Pedro on the parallel
‘communication’ thread the need to refocus on disinformation and the possibility
of its detection.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>D/A.3 21.01 I (Joseph) accept the rebuke of Pedro and an off-line member of
the group. The latter stated that my tone was ‘Fascist’. In agreeing, with
apologies, I note that an ‘anti-Fascist’ manifesto can still have a Fascist
tone, to be avoided. My criticism of cultural relativism still stands for
further discussion.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A.4 22.01 Terry’s note goes to the heart of intent and its complexity. I
tend to think that ‘cultural-hyper-relativism’, produced with the intention only
to persuade and not to mislead is mis-information, but is probably quite
rare.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>His second point comes back to the problem of markers for disinformation or
rather disinforming. It will add to the body of comments along these
lines.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A.5 22.01 Pedro discusses how disinformation can arise in situations
involving large bodies of knowledge as well as the new media, which overlap.
There is a link to emotional reactions to, I suppose, both information annd
disinformation that in and of itself may be a form of disinformation, depending
as always, as I see it, on intent. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>D.1 22.01 I (Joseph) regret that Krassimir not taken just one fact and
given his expert analysis of it. As to some comments by others being at the
‘wiki-level’, that seems a polite and accurate way of describing them. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do not see, however, without further discussion which I hope he will
provide, how a theory that describes the relations of mathematical entities
(morphisms) and ways of mapping between them (functors) can apply to information
process phenomena. A structure is not necessarily a static entity. The term
meta- is used in the sense of both ‘about’ and ‘beyond’; especially in the
second use, I do not see a requirement for the principle, from category theory,
of exclusivity and exhaustivity. There is no need for absolute separation
between, say, between physics and metaphysics. I think there is a lot more to be
said about the dynamic structure of information and disinformation in this sense
because I see in it the possibility for new markers for disinformation. I hope
this justifies my having gone to this length.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>_______________________________________________</DIV>
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