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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Dear Friends and Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>The notes of Terry and Pedro, read together, point
to a locus of disinformation where 1) the disinformer refuses to enter into the
universe of discourse of his/her interlocutor with 2) the intent to mislead and
persuade <i><span style='font-style:italic'>third</span></i>-parties. This is
happening every day in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Washington</st1:place></st1:State>.
Closer to home, a for me key related phase in Pedro’s note is “insistence
to apply one’s own expertise”. This is why exchange of real
information/real exchange of information <i><span style='font-style:italic'>requires
</span></i>reference to <i><span style='font-style:italic'>both </span></i>the
other’s point of view <i><span style='font-style:italic'>and</span></i>
his/her presentation of it, as well as the differences with one’s own.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>May I just suggest the neologism of meta-structure
rather than meta-data to point to the complexity of the process? (I had
suggested the presence of reference to the other’s point of view as a ‘marker’.)
This would help to make the necessary bridge to cognitive science and psychology,
without limitation to an index or ‘rating’. But perhaps such a
first marker or mode of alert would be as much as the society can handle for
the time being. . .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Thank you and best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Pedro C. Marijuan<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> mercredi, 22 janvier 2020
14:48<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] Cultural
Relativsm</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dear List,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>In science itself we have good instances of the
information/disinformation conundrum. We have a enormous stock of specialized
knowledge in the order of 6,000 disciplines. In front of new problems or too
complex ones, the insistence to apply the own expertise creates real problems
of disinformation/misinformation and real clashes of cultures. Not long ago, in
the 60s & 70s, autism was attributed by leading experts (under the
influence of psychology & clinical schools) to "refrigerator
mothers"--literally. It added a lot to the suffering of many families. It
still could be heard in the 80s... In science we need a lot of discussion and
often heated exchanges to arrange the appropriate portions of knowledge that
best fits the research problems at hand. In general, confrontation between
distant cultures, scientific or otherwise, raises not very kind reactions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And the new media--internet, mobiles, social networks-- also generate
very easily reactions of Khaneman's System 1 type (say fast, inconsiderate,
self-asserting). Part of the "hooks" that fake news display are based
on provoking that type of immediate visceral reactions:
outrage/fear/aggressiveness/despise & supremacism/etc. Both the amputated
(caricature) context to which these news refer and the type of reactions they
elicit become elements for seeing them as fake--rather easily for the informed
observer. MacLuhan would have said that these new media are very cool and
very inclusive of ourselves. Personally I had observed long ago that just
irrelevant emails can ignite "flares" far more often than the old
media we used (letters), even the faxes of the 80s and 90s were already
elements more susceptible to create conflict.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>By the way, this list has been traditionally a place of respect and
good tone, and of freedom of thought. Please, let us keep our high standards.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Best--Pedro <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>El 22/01/2020 a las 2:41, Terrence W. DEACON escribió:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite
cite="mid:CAOJbPRJ8V77Zi7TTdNCu6r=CDBYTU+hih7i7624JGpu0f=Rxew@mail.gmail.com">
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Is cultural-hyper-relativism intellectual disinformation or just
misinformation?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Does it depend on whether the intention is to mislead or just
persuade?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>What if the purveyor is a believer who is selfishly trying to
get people to agree with his theory?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ah, the complex subtlety of the role of intent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Are there metadata that might correlate with the intent behind
disinformation?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Assessing this would the analogue to using galvanic skin response
and heart rate for lie detection.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I.e. an index that would automatically update with each replication to
provide a crude "reliability rating" linked to each message.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Though fallible and defeatable it could be a first mode of alert -
like the initial pause when you answer a robocall.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 4:14 AM Joseph Brenner <<a
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" moz-do-not-send=true>joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=FR-CH style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Dear </span></font><font size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Some</span></font><font size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=FR-CH style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'>,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=FR-CH style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'>This note is to denounce a principle of
cultural relativism that has crept into the Lecture discussion. The concept
that opposing points of view are always equally valid is a form of
crypto-fascism that for me is totally unacceptable. It is Trump’s
“there are good guys on the other side”, which included the
murderers of a demonstrator. Does anyone on the list want to suggest that
clitorectomies are acceptable because “it’s part of the
culture”? I do not intend to include responses to such notes in my final
summary. If this position is not to the liking of some members, they can erase
my future messages, as I have theirs.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Joseph</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send=true>Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la
Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente
enlace: <a
href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send=true>https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja
desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send=true>http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Professor Terrence W. Deacon<br>
University of California, Berkeley<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><pre><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Fis mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>----------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a
href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>----------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></blockquote>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<pre cols=72><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Pedro C. Marijuán<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>------------------------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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