<div style="color:black;font: 10pt Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">one subculture's truth is another subculture's disinformation.
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<div><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">with warmth and oomph--howard</span><br>
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<div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----</span></font><br>
<font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></span></font><br>
<font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">To: fis <fis@listas.unizar.es></span></font><br>
<font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 4:43 pm</span></font><br>
<font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Subject: Re: [Fis] The Exchange 'Value' of Information: Communication</span></font><br>
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">Dear Joseph and FIS colleagues,</div>
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">In response to your question below, the
theme may have appeared partially in some sessions (some posts of
John Collier, I think; ah, and we also had a session on morals by
Robert Artigiani), but never centrally.</div>
<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">The list of discussion sessions to
check is here (<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" class="yiv7354900959moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/">https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/</a>).
Sorry I know I have to actualize it...<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">For my taste, the discussion on
disinformation has provided useful distinctions and related
concepts, but somehow it has flown away, as usually happens, from
the original aims.</div>
<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">It does not mean it is bad; probably it
reflects our own thinking styles of approaching or re-approaching
our favorite explanatory topics. I remember a distinguished
biology professor who was unable to discuss anything without
arriving to the Darwinian selection of the fittest, of the adapted
phenotype. Then the theme, whatsoever, was solved for him.
Curious.</div>
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">Returning to our multifaceted,
polyhedric topic, I think major explanatory fields needed may be:
biology & ethology, psychology & psychopathology,
anthropology & social science, politics, media studies,
linguistics & logics & philosophy, computer science &
technology. The fields could be put differently, of course... My
contention is that the most "micro" approaches do not bring much
useful results, except participating in a well-crafted synthesis.
The epidemics of fake news, arguably one of the most ambitious
aims herein, was confronted more or less successfully in the media
of the past. The new wave, including the Deep Fake coming soon,
will erode its own basis of gullibility and will promote I think
authentication AI filters, perhaps similar to the Spam filters
emerging in the 90s as I already said. The difference between the
false narrative (finally all news are but micronarratives) and the
true narrative can be "intuited" by the expert in the topic and
this could be partially supported or somehow detected by future
"open minded" Deep L systems... Couldn't it be?<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">In any event, as long as there be
humans around, we will have truths, faithfulness, honor, lies,
deception, etc. interspersed within the existing social means of
communication--provided freedom is upheld.</div>
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">Best wishes,</div>
<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">--Pedro<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix"> <br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv7354900959moz-cite-prefix">El 19/01/2020 a las 9:18, Joseph
Brenner escribió:<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="FR-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Dear All,</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="FR-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;">The original intent
of my Lecture was to discuss the structure of <i><span style="font-style:italic;">information</span></i>
as well as disinformation. Some recent postings have
suggested to me that there
is much science to do in the area of the positive value of
true information as
opposed to its absence in dis- and mis-information. In
particular, I am interested
in the value of the information exchanged between two or
more individuals.</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Again, we are
immediately confronted with issues, carefully studied by
Loet, of communication,
and the difficulty of separating properties of information
and communication. For
example, a dis-informer must choose a information channel
to disseminate his/her
disinformation.</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;">I would just say now
that I think the value of a good exchange of information
between people is
moral/emotional, and one cannot get into these issues
without reference to psychology
and ethics. In other terms, we are here in an area of
science to which standard
logical and computational approaches cannot apply, but in
which we wish to be
as rigorous as possible. Any suggestions which are also
relevant to the major
objective of the New Year Lecture will be included there,
with thanks.</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;">By copy of this
note, I am asking Pedro to please tell us if this area has
been debated or not
within FIS. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Best,</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv7354900959MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Joseph</span></font></div>
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<pre class="yiv7354900959moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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<pre class="yiv7354900959moz-signature">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" class="yiv7354900959moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" class="yiv7354900959moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
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<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style="color: black; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Fis mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br clear="none">----------<br clear="none">INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br clear="none">Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a shape="rect" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br clear="none">Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="http://listas.unizar.es">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br clear="none">----------<br clear="none"></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
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</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">__________________________</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">Howard Bloom</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">Howardbloom.net</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film,The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ </span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), </span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic), </span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna).</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">A Quartz Magazine Pro</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Kepler Space Institute Senior Scholar .</span></font></div>
<div class="yqt5041861397" id="yqt61976" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project,.</span></font></div>
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