<div dir="ltr">Cari colleghi,<div>dopo avere spedito il mio messaggio ho avuto modo di leggere quelli di Krassimir e Jaime che cadono a fagiolo.</div><div>Francesco.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mar 26 nov 2019 alle ore 07:46 Francesco Rizzo <<a href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Cari Pedro, Giuseppe, Terrence e tutti,<div>l'informazione (neg-entropica) è la legge fondamentale della esistenza e della conoscenza. Nessuno può farne a meno. La tras-informazione è un processo mediante il quale l'informazione cambia o muta nello spazio e nel tempo. La dis-informazione (entropica) è la corruzione o degradazione della verità della realtà o della realtà della verità l.'iper-informazione è la molteplicità o la diversità delle definizioni relative a determinati fenomeni del mondo organico (animato) e inorganico (inanimato) che concorrono, approssimandosi o allontanandosi, alla scoperta della verità possibile o probabile della scienza e della coscienza.</div><div>Sono pervenuto a queste conclusioni seguendo l'economia del mio pensiero o il pensiero della mia economia dis-seminato in quaranta libri e centinaia di articoli.</div><div>Ciò non impedisce, anzi arricchisce, il confronto-dialogo accogliente le verità critiche o le critiche veritere degli altri, all'insegna della certezza dell'ìincertezza o dell'incertezza della certezza.</div><div>Avevo preparato un contributo-intervento per partecipare al convegno che si è svolto a Berkeley, ma poi per ragioni familiari non non ho potuto parteciparvi. Di questo chiedo scusa a tutti voi e soprattutto a Terry Deacon che ammiro e apprezzo tanto per la fulgida economia del suo pensiero. Ora tento di comunicarvi il framework (intelaiatura o struttura) della onto-metodo-logia reale della mia concezione scientifica espressa in tanti saggi, ma ultimamente soprattutto in:</div><div>* "La scienza non può non essere umana, civile, sociale ECONOMICA, enigmatica, nobile, profetica", Arane editrice, Roma, 2016:</div><div>* "Scienza dell'amore o amore della scienza. Sogno dell'economia dell'amore o amore dell'economia del sogno", Aracne editrice, Roma, 2019.</div><div>* "La porta aperta dei sistemi fabbrica-mercato: linguaggio comunicativo, tecnologia strumentale; umanesimo nuovo" Aracne editrice, Roma, 2019, in corso di rilettura per la stampa:</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">1. L’<b>in–formazione</b>
è la legge fondamentale della vita del creato e degli esseri viventi.
L’in–formazione consiste nel <b>dare</b> o <b>prendere forma</b> degli uomini e/o delle
loro idee, degli animali e delle piante, oltre che della materia o dell’energia
(visibile e invisibile) dell’Universo intero. Il contrario di questa <b>legge delle leggi</b> è la de–formazione.
Il processo di tras–in– (o de–)form–azione è alla base dell’attività naturale e
umana. Difatti questa formidabile parola composta e complessa significa
letteralmente e sostanzialmente: azione formativa (creazione) o deformativa
(distruzione) della forma che si verifica nello spazio–tempo dell’esistenza e
quindi si tras–forma ininterrottamente.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">L’informazione costituisce una triade con
la <b>significazione</b> (che la precede) e
la <b>comunicazione </b>(che la segue).
Nessuna scienza naturale e umana (o sociale) ne può fare a meno seppure
specificandola nel proprio e singolare <b>campo
di forma</b>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">È possibile definire quattro categorie di
informazione o deformazione:</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">* <b>eco–biologica</b> relativa all’attività di
comunicazione–conservazione ― nei diversi con–testi <b>genotipici</b> trasmessi ereditariamente e passibili di <b>mutuazioni</b> o <b>fenotipici</b> non trasmissibili ereditariamente e passibili di <b>fluttuazioni</b> ― umana, animale e
vegetale in–centrata sul <b>patrimonio
genomico</b> del DNA e sul corrispettivo <b>codice
genetico</b>; <span style="color:red">da qui: la comunicazione cellulare;
l’analisi molecolare per neutralizzare i capricci del DNA responsabile della
proliferazione incontrollate delle cellule dovuta all’azione dannosa dei geni
alterati o mutati, attraverso la <i>targeted
therapy</i>; il completamento della mappa del genoma umano (2003); la
manipolazione delle cellule del sistema immunitario del malato stesso perché si
attivino contro il tumore (<i>Car–T cell
therapy</i>) mediante la farmaco–terapia genetica; la conoscenza di geni
(comandanti) che regolano altri geni (obbedienti), cioè, secondo
un’attività–funzione epigenetica; etc., fanno il resto su cui basare l’<b>economia genetica</b> o la <b>genetica economica</b> nell’ambito della <i>Nuova economia</i>: possono restare estranei
ai valutatori questi valori della vita?;</span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">* <b>termodinamica o naturale</b> relativa all’<b>energia libera</b> (anabolica) o <b>neg–entropica</b> fondata sul
dis–equilibrio (vitale) e all’<b>energia
degradata</b> (catabolica) o <b>entropia</b>
(mortale): <span style="color:red">sia per le esigenze dell’<b>economia logistica o ingegneristica</b> di
non trascurabile interesse operativo sia per dimostrare la concretezza, la
fattibilità e la validità empirica dell’approccio alla nuova teoria del valore
proposta da lungo tempo l’<b>economia
termodinamica</b> o la <b>termodinamica
economica</b> è imprescindibile o ineludibile, soprattutto per quanto riguarda
il calcolo della produzione di entropia applicando il teorema di Gouy–Stodola, <i>l’evoluzione di un sistema reale che porta
sempre ad una perdita complessiva di exergia</i> o ad un aumento di entropia,
l’efficienza energetica (sta al primo principio della termodinamica) ed
exergetica (sta al secondo principio della termodinamica); l’ecologia
integrale, umana e naturale, non può disattendere la strategia termodinamica
dell’esistenza (Rizzo)</span>;</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">* <b>matematica o cibernetica</b> relativa alla
misura dell’equi–probabilità di una distribuzione statistica uniforme alla
fonte, secondo i suoi teorici (Shannon e Weaver, 1949) direttamente
proporzionale all’entropia del sistema, stato di equi–probabilità al quale
tendono gli elementi del medesimo sistema; ma l’informazione può definirsi
neg–entropia (inversamente proporzionale all’entropia) quando è già
selezionata, trasmessa e ricevuta; in tal caso v’ha la necessità di un <b>s–codice ― </b>una sorta di <b>filtro</b> che scorga una struttura
semplice sotto un’apparente casualità ―<b> </b> quale nuovo tipo di fonte svolgente una
funzione ordinatrice che limita il numero degli elementi considerabili e le
loro possibilità di combinazione: così l’informazione (matematica) alla fonte
diminuisce, ma la possibilità di trasmissione dei messaggi aumenta; inoltre è
possibile e talvolta ragionevole passare dalla logica aristotelico–binaria o 0
o 1 alla <b>filosofia (entropia) fuzzy</b>
tra 0 e 1;</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">* <b>semiotico–semantica</b> relativa anche alla
possibilità di <b>comunicazione</b>
dipendente dalla funzione ordinatrice svolta da un s–codice costituito da un
sistema di stati discreti sovrapponibile all’equi–probabilità del sistema
iniziale, che consente di sfruttarlo comunicativamente; tuttavia affinché
esistano s–codici è imprescindibile una <b>significazione</b>
o <b>funzione segnica</b> dell’intera vita
culturale, ancor prima della stessa attività semiotica: così si completa il
quadro triadico costituito da significazione, informazione, comunicazione.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Il <b>valore della forma</b> o la <b>forma del valore</b> costituisce la <b>teoria del valore–informazione</b> della <i>Nuova economia</i> in cui <i>Il sistema fabbrica–mercato</i> non è solo
un luogo produttivo o commerciale, ma anche e soprattutto un’interazione–comunicazione
interna (nell’azienda) ed esterna (nel mercato): quindi il mercato non è
affatto il luogo dell’incontro e della domanda e dell’offerta dei beni, bensì
il luogo di interazione narrativa dei segni economici. Un’altra notazione:
l’interazione–comunicazione economica che si svolge con la <b>scienza del valore e delle valutazioni</b> si avvale, nel bene, della
neg–entropia monetario–finanziaria e subisce, nel male, l’entropia
monetario–finanziaria (Rizzo).</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">In senso più
general–quantistico la natura o la società presenta una moltitudine di fenomeni
che appaiono caotici o rischiosi, fino a quando non vengono considerati <i>messaggi</i> valutativi, significativi e
comportamental–cognitivi da comprendere. Sicché con un codice interpretativo,
liberamente scelto, hanno un contenuto o significato, in presenza di un certo <b>rumore di fondo</b>; con un altro codice il
suddetto <b>rumore diventa messaggio</b> o
il suddetto <b>messaggio</b> <b>diventa rumore</b>. Beninteso, i dati della
stessa materia o la materia degli stessi dati possono dar luogo a diversi
messaggi (pp. 269-271).</span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Grazie e buon lavoro. Scusatemi l'italiano!</span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Francesco</span></p></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno lun 25 nov 2019 alle ore 18:55 Terrence W. DEACON <<a href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">deacon@berkeley.edu</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I applaud Joseph's identification of what I consider the most serious threat to modern civilization.<div>As an organization that takes as its primary aim to be an understanding of information in its most complete sense,</div><div>what could be more valuable than for us to focus the goal of finding ways to mitigate the influence of IT-based disinformation.</div><div>This is far from a trivial issue, and it requires a full scientific conceptualization of information to succeed;</div><div>i.e. one that takes the referential (meaningful) and normative (pragmatic) aspects of information seriously.</div><div>Rather than bickering over our differing theoretical perspectives, we could spend our efforts exploring what each might contribute to this critical need.</div><div>We can add to these challenges the need to also counter the rapid development of surveillance technologies and AI-based manipulation of opinion and behavior.</div><div>In other words, there is so much that we collectively have to offer if we can just focus on what matters.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 7:38 AM Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<div lang="FR">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Dear Pedro and All,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Disinformation is produced and disseminated in four
major domains: politics, science, communications and the operation of the
current social system.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Politics<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Science<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Communications<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">The Social System; Hypocrisy<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">The reason I refer to disinformation as a science is not
to ennoble it, but to emphasize that combating it requires close attention to
its scientific and philosophical properties and dynamics. Let us use the term
narrative to refer to a ‘unit’ of the discourse in the domains, and
I give just a few examples here.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Politics<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Left-wing and right-wing politicians are equally bad. This
doctrine pushed by the <i><span style="font-style:italic">left-</span></i>wing
publicist Ralph Nader during his run for the U.S. Presidency in 2000 led to his
gaining enough Democratic voters to result in the victory of the Republican
Bush and the <u></u><u></u>Iraq<u></u><u></u>
war. Despite the Obama interlude, it set the pre-conditions for the subsequent
emergence of Trump.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Science<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Driven by fundamentalist dogma, disinformation about the
risks <i><span style="font-style:italic">vs. </span></i>the necessity of vaccination
is increasingly common. Similarly, the number of people who believe (or claim
to believe, see below) that the Earth is flat is increasing compared to the
last Century. Many Americans still believe that global warming is a hoax,
propagated by ‘Communists’, interested in destroying our economic system
(see 4).<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="3" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Communications<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Disinformation about the Internet leads to resistance to
control in the name of ‘Free Speech’. I defy anyone who has seen
recent interviews of Zuckerberg on TV to claim that he does not deserve
criminal prosecution.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="4" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">The Social System; Hypocrisy<u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">If people are forced to pretend publicly that they
believe the disinformation they receive (to keep their jobs, <i><span style="font-style:italic">etc.</span></i>), hypocrisy becomes institutionalized
and endemic. It is then possible to ask whether the current neo-capitalist
system in fact depends on disinformation for its continued existence.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Finally, it is very easy, IMHO, to distinguish between
disinformation and misinformation, without becoming too
‘technical’: the latter is essentially accidental, although its
consequences may be disastrous in individual cases. The former is intentional,
and its consequences are becoming increasingly disastrous. Theories of
Information Science that neglect or occult the role of intentionality in the
transfer of information, that is, communications, leave the door open to
further disinformation.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">I welcome both agreements and disagreements with the
above, as well as possible themes for <i><span style="font-style:italic">FIS </span></i>and
<i><span style="font-style:italic">FDS </span></i>discussion.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Best wishes,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"">Joseph<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode""> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">
Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Pedro C. Marijuan<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> lundi, 25 novembre 2019
14:22<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <u></u><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><u></u><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] FW: The Age of
Discord</span></font><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Dear List,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Am responding to Joseph and to Diego.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">To the former, I agree on the quantitative mirage when trying to
formalize history. Perhaps the best contents in Turchin's books refer to
qualitative aspects, for instance the development of "frontier"
countries he discusses (the cases of Russia, Spain, and US and others). The
main point on the emergence of those long term trends of progression/regression
or oscillations is very intriguing and I think we cannot substantiate it easily.
The organization of an ad hoc discussion session would be quite interesting
(can someone help on that possibility?). The relationship with the historical
acceleration an the emergence of new of information flows would also be
intriguing. As I comment below, it can be a fertile new field and a necessity
to be covered by information philosophy. We badly need to put the most relevant
aspects in an integrative view.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">To Diego, my focus was not only in the Latin American countries. If we
contemplate recent months/years, we see many other mass explosions (Algeria,
Tunisia, Thailand, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Ukraine, Jordania...) and I had
already included other Arab countries, plus Spain, France, and other movements:
Trumpism, Brexiterism, and also we could include Metooism, indignados, and all
kinds of offendidisms & populisms... Everywhere there are deep causes
around for mass-mobilization, some are different, some may be common. But it is
not just the arrival of "conquistadores" scapegoat. By the way, they parted
away two centuries ago, and some of those countries were not in bad shape 50-60
years ago (Argentina, Venezuela, Uruguay, Cuba.... The case of Argentina is
amazing: after WWI she was the fourth richest country of the world. Venezuela's
case, unfortunately, is more dramatic). Coincidentally, in discussions with
Islamic-inclined parties, I was surprised to find another scapegoat widely
argumented: the Crusades. Islamic societies failed to make the different modern
transitions due to the cultural-political crisis brought forth by the crusades
(seven-eight centuries ago!). Well, to escape from traditional cliches or from
political preferences I think Acemoglu's views are quite balanced about these
themes, particularly in his 2012 book, <i><span style="font-style:italic"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail" title="Why Nations Fail" target="_blank">Why
Nations Fail</a></span></i>. Our colleague Howard Bloom has also written
penetrating analyses on the historical evolution of Islamic societies versus
the Western world.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Summing up, that the new media are one of those deep causes
contributing to irritated socio-political and cultural climates is an idea that
can be found in quite a few analyses today. Coincidentally I could read this
weekend an international analyst with very similar opinions to my own on the
e-destabilization in the mentioned world regions. Widespread mass-additions to
e-life are a fact: data on use of screens are outrageous. Adults in the US
spend on average more that ten hours daily watching, reading, listening to or
simply interacting with media. US adolescents spend an average of 9 hours daily
in front of their cell phones screens. In parallel, a growing epidemics of
adolescent medicalization and prescription of opioids and drug abuse is taking
shape. That means a brave new style of life and a brave new mode of thinking
are on the advance... <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Best regards<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">--Pedro<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">El 22/11/2019 a las 12:54, Joseph Brenner escribió:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy";color:navy">Dear Pedro and All,<u></u><u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">I agree in general with Pedro on the importance of Turchin’s
transdisciplinary approach, but feel that something is missing in his attempted
synthesis in <i><span style="font-style:italic">Cliodynamics. </span></i>I say
attempted for two reasons: for me, he overemphasizes the role of mathematics
– historical databases and such, and the title of his journal is <i><span style="font-style:italic">Quantitative History and Cultural Evolution. </span></i>This
is not to say that mathematical methods do not have a role, but if the
objective is that history become an analytical, predictive science like others
so described, I see the potential loss of its essential <i><span style="font-style:italic">qualitative</span></i> aspects. The statement that
Trump is worse than Nixon is not analytical.<u></u><u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><u></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"> <u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">The (clio)dynamics of Pedro’s 5 points are also
non-analytical and non-mathematizable. However, he uses two, related terms that
I think should be unpacked: 1) low progress 2) secular oscillation. I see
decades-long trends of <i><span style="font-style:italic">re-</span></i>gress,
such that only if the sinusoidal oscillation can also move backwards is it fair
to call it an oscillation<i><span style="font-style:italic">.<u></u><u></u></span></i></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><span><u></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans\00000a Unic";color:navy;font-style:italic"> <u></u></span></span></font></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">If it is a fundamental <i><span style="font-style:italic">irrationality</span></i>
that is underlying current cultural evolution –or perhaps better <i><span style="font-style:italic">de</span></i>volution, then the practice of
Information Science and Philosophy must take this into account to be meaningful.<u></u><u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><span><u></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans\00000a Unic";color:navy;font-style:italic"> <u></u></span></span></font></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, but the repetition of
only the most commonly accepted usages of terms is not going to help.<u></u><u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><u></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"> <u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Thank you and best wishes,<u></u><u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><u></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"> <u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy">Joseph<u></u><u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><span><u></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans\00000a Unic";color:navy;font-style:italic"> <u></u></span></span></font></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans\00000a Unic";color:navy;font-style:italic"> </span></span></font></i><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"> <u></u><u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy"> <u></u><u></u></span></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">
Fis [<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Pedro C. Marijuan<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> vendredi, 22 novembre 2019
12:14<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> 'fis'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [Fis] The Age of Discord</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<u></u><u></u>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Dear FIS
& IS4SI Colleagues,<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">"The
Age of Discord" was the title of a lecture that the historian and
sociologist Peter Turchin, founder of the Cliodynamics approach, gave recently
in the Netherlands. The slides can be easily obtained in the web (in his blog).
The content was mainly referring to a decades-long trend of low progress and
rise of inequality, and as a consequence growing social unrest. It would form
part of a secular oscillation in history... But I think there is a new potent
factor: the hyperconnectivity we talked weeks ago.<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">These
days we are watching violent demonstrations in numerous countries: Chile,
Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, Nicaragua, Iran, Irak, Lebanon... plus Hongkong, Spain
(Barcelona), France (gilets jaunes), and the rising polarization from Trumpism
and Brexit. There is a contagion effect in some cases. But a common factor is
the influence of social networks. In several aspects: <u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">--How
easy is to organize demonstrations and activist concentrations.<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">--How
easy is to disseminate information that efficiently counteracts governments'
efforts to maintain social order. <u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">--How
easyly anger and hatred are shared among the masses, generating a collective
climate of insults, physical violence, highest irritation.<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">--How easily
outright lies, disinformation, vitriolic attacks are jumping from screen to
screen to the eyeballs of hypnotized watchers.<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">--The
proportion of "negative" to "positive" (say of emotional
responses) has become the highest in the history of communication.<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">My
opinion is that the new media and new modalities of hyperconnection, still
deprived of constraining cultural patterns, are the genuine movers of this
"Age of Discord", without rejecting the other factors implied in Turchin
secular views. This time there is something really new agitating history and
the masses (like printing press, steam engines...). Is there hope that
collective intelligence will domesticate this artificial information flow soon?
Of course, without a loss of individual freedoms.<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Best
wishes<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">--Pedro<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<pre cols="72"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">-- <u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">-------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Pedro C. Marijuán<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">------------------------------------------------- <u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<fieldset></fieldset><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Fis mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">----------<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">----------<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre></blockquote>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<pre cols="72"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">-- <u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">-------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Pedro C. Marijuán<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre><pre><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt">------------------------------------------------- <u></u><u></u></span></font></pre></div>
</div>
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Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Professor Terrence W. Deacon<br>University of California, Berkeley</div>
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Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
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