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<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear FIS Colleagues,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I have read the current discussion about “The Age of Discord.
& <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f5f5f5">The Foundations of DIS-information
Science”</FONT> with a great interest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>After every letter I ask myself: Why it is
possible?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Can we Dis-inform or tell a lie to the cells or to the cat,
bee, fish, etc. ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Can they (the cell, the cat, bee, fish, etc.) tell a lie to
each other?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I think it is very important that only humans can tell a lie
only to other humans.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Where is the proof that what we say is not a lie or
dis-information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>We may believe that we do not tell a lie but who knows ...
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The sentence “This is a lie!” may be a lie!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Friendly greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Krassimir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=deacon@berkeley.edu
href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu">Terrence W. DEACON</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 25, 2019 7:55 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=joe.brenner@bluewin.ch
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">Joseph Brenner</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">Foundations of Information Science
Information Science</A> ; <A title=pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">Pedro C. Marijuan</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] FW: The Age of Discord. The Foundations
ofDIS-information Science</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV dir=ltr>I applaud Joseph's identification of what I consider the most
serious threat to modern civilization.
<DIV>As an organization that takes as its primary aim to be an understanding of
information in its most complete sense,</DIV>
<DIV>what could be more valuable than for us to focus the goal of finding ways
to mitigate the influence of IT-based disinformation.</DIV>
<DIV>This is far from a trivial issue, and it requires a full scientific
conceptualization of information to succeed;</DIV>
<DIV>i.e. one that takes the referential (meaningful) and normative (pragmatic)
aspects of information seriously.</DIV>
<DIV>Rather than bickering over our differing theoretical perspectives, we could
spend our efforts exploring what each might contribute to this critical
need.</DIV>
<DIV>We can add to these challenges the need to also counter the rapid
development of surveillance technologies and AI-based manipulation of opinion
and behavior.</DIV>
<DIV>In other words, there is so much that we collectively have to offer if we
can just focus on what matters.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 7:38 AM Joseph Brenner
<<A href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</A>>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><U></U><U></U><U></U>
<DIV lang=FR>
<DIV class=gmail-m_7047513086041007738Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Dear Pedro and
All,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Disinformation is
produced and disseminated in four major domains: politics, science,
communications and the operation of the current social
system.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0cm" type=1>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Politics<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Science<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Communications<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>The Social
System; Hypocrisy<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </LI></OL>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>The reason I refer
to disinformation as a science is not to ennoble it, but to emphasize that
combating it requires close attention to its scientific and philosophical
properties and dynamics. Let us use the term narrative to refer to a ‘unit’ of
the discourse in the domains, and I give just a few examples
here.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0cm" type=1>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Politics<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT>
</LI></OL>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN-LEFT: 35.4pt"><FONT
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Left-wing and
right-wing politicians are equally bad. This doctrine pushed by the <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">left-</SPAN></I>wing publicist Ralph Nader
during his run for the U.S. Presidency in 2000 led to his gaining enough
Democratic voters to result in the victory of the Republican Bush and the
<U></U><U></U>Iraq<U></U><U></U> war. Despite the Obama interlude, it set the
pre-conditions for the subsequent emergence of
Trump.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN-LEFT: 35.4pt"><FONT
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0cm" type=1 start=2>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Science<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT>
</LI></OL>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN-LEFT: 35.4pt"><FONT
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Driven by
fundamentalist dogma, disinformation about the risks <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">vs. </SPAN></I>the necessity of vaccination is
increasingly common. Similarly, the number of people who believe (or claim to
believe, see below) that the Earth is flat is increasing compared to the last
Century. Many Americans still believe that global warming is a hoax,
propagated by ‘Communists’, interested in destroying our economic system (see
4).<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN-LEFT: 35.4pt"><FONT
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0cm" type=1 start=3>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Communications<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT>
</LI></OL>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN-LEFT: 35.4pt"><FONT
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Disinformation
about the Internet leads to resistance to control in the name of ‘Free
Speech’. I defy anyone who has seen recent interviews of Zuckerberg on TV to
claim that he does not deserve criminal
prosecution.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0cm" type=1 start=4>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>The Social
System; Hypocrisy<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </LI></OL>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN-LEFT: 35.4pt"><FONT
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>If people are
forced to pretend publicly that they believe the disinformation they receive
(to keep their jobs, <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">etc.</SPAN></I>),
hypocrisy becomes institutionalized and endemic. It is then possible to ask
whether the current neo-capitalist system in fact depends on disinformation
for its continued existence.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN-LEFT: 35.4pt"><FONT
size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Finally, it is
very easy, IMHO, to distinguish between disinformation and misinformation,
without becoming too ‘technical’: the latter is essentially accidental,
although its consequences may be disastrous in individual cases. The former is
intentional, and its consequences are becoming increasingly disastrous.
Theories of Information Science that neglect or occult the role of
intentionality in the transfer of information, that is, communications, leave
the door open to further disinformation.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>I welcome both
agreements and disagreements with the above, as well as possible themes for
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">FIS </SPAN></I>and <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">FDS
</SPAN></I>discussion.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Best
wishes,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'>Joseph<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma"> Fis [mailto:<A
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</A>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Pedro C.
Marijuan<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> lundi, 25
novembre 2019 14:22<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
<U></U><A href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>fis@listas.unizar.es</A><U></U><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Fis] FW: The Age of
Discord</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dear List,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Am responding to Joseph and to
Diego.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">To the former, I agree on the quantitative mirage when
trying to formalize history. Perhaps the best contents in Turchin's books
refer to qualitative aspects, for instance the development of "frontier"
countries he discusses (the cases of Russia, Spain, and US and others). The
main point on the emergence of those long term trends of
progression/regression or oscillations is very intriguing and I think we
cannot substantiate it easily. The organization of an ad hoc discussion
session would be quite interesting (can someone help on that possibility?).
The relationship with the historical acceleration an the emergence of new of
information flows would also be intriguing. As I comment below, it can be a
fertile new field and a necessity to be covered by information philosophy. We
badly need to put the most relevant aspects in an integrative
view.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">To Diego, my focus was not only in the Latin American
countries. If we contemplate recent months/years, we see many other mass
explosions (Algeria, Tunisia, Thailand, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Ukraine,
Jordania...) and I had already included other Arab countries, plus Spain,
France, and other movements: Trumpism, Brexiterism, and also we could include
Metooism, indignados, and all kinds of offendidisms & populisms...
Everywhere there are deep causes around for mass-mobilization, some are
different, some may be common. But it is not just the arrival of
"conquistadores" scapegoat. By the way, they parted away two centuries ago,
and some of those countries were not in bad shape 50-60 years ago (Argentina,
Venezuela, Uruguay, Cuba.... The case of Argentina is amazing: after WWI she
was the fourth richest country of the world. Venezuela's case, unfortunately,
is more dramatic). Coincidentally, in discussions with Islamic-inclined
parties, I was surprised to find another scapegoat widely argumented: the
Crusades. Islamic societies failed to make the different modern transitions
due to the cultural-political crisis brought forth by the crusades
(seven-eight centuries ago!). Well, to escape from traditional cliches or from
political preferences I think Acemoglu's views are quite balanced about these
themes, particularly in his 2012 book, <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><A
title="Why Nations Fail" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail"
target=_blank>Why Nations Fail</A></SPAN></I>. Our colleague Howard Bloom has
also written penetrating analyses on the historical evolution of Islamic
societies versus the Western world.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Summing up, that the new media are one of those deep
causes contributing to irritated socio-political and cultural climates is an
idea that can be found in quite a few analyses today. Coincidentally I could
read this weekend an international analyst with very similar opinions to my
own on the e-destabilization in the mentioned world regions. Widespread
mass-additions to e-life are a fact: data on use of screens are outrageous.
Adults in the US spend on average more that ten hours daily watching, reading,
listening to or simply interacting with media. US adolescents spend an average
of 9 hours daily in front of their cell phones screens. In parallel, a growing
epidemics of adolescent medicalization and prescription of opioids and drug
abuse is taking shape. That means a brave new style of life and a brave new
mode of thinking are on the advance... <U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Best regards<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--Pedro<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">El 22/11/2019 a las 12:54, Joseph Brenner
escribió:<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy"; COLOR: navy'>Dear
Pedro and All,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode ;color:navy"; COLOR: navy'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'>I
agree in general with Pedro on the importance of Turchin’s transdisciplinary
approach, but feel that something is missing in his attempted synthesis in
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Cliodynamics. </SPAN></I>I say attempted
for two reasons: for me, he overemphasizes the role of mathematics –
historical databases and such, and the title of his journal is <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Quantitative History and Cultural Evolution.
</SPAN></I>This is not to say that mathematical methods do not have a role,
but if the objective is that history become an analytical, predictive
science like others so described, I see the potential loss of its essential
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">qualitative</SPAN></I> aspects. The
statement that Trump is worse than Nixon is not
analytical.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><U></U><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'>The
(clio)dynamics of Pedro’s 5 points are also non-analytical and
non-mathematizable. However, he uses two, related terms that I think should
be unpacked: 1) low progress 2) secular oscillation. I see decades-long
trends of <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">re-</SPAN></I>gress, such that
only if the sinusoidal oscillation can also move backwards is it fair to
call it an oscillation<I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></I></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><SPAN><U></U><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans
unic"; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic'><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></I><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'>If
it is a fundamental <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">irrationality</SPAN></I> that is underlying
current cultural evolution –or perhaps better <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">de</SPAN></I>volution, then the practice of
Information Science and Philosophy must take this into account to be
meaningful.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><SPAN><U></U><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans
unic"; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic'><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></I><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'>I
am not arguing for the sake of arguing, but the repetition of only the most
commonly accepted usages of terms is not going to
help.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><U></U><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'>Thank
you and best wishes,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><U></U><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'>Joseph<U></U><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><SPAN><U></U><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans
unic"; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic'><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></I><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans
Unic"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans
unic"; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic'> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></I><FONT
color=navy size=2 face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'> <U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2
face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Lucida Sans Unicode"; COLOR: navy'><U></U><U></U></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma"> Fis [<A
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</A>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Pedro C.
Marijuan<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> vendredi, 22
novembre 2019 12:14<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
'fis'<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Fis] The
Age of Discord</SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U></P></DIV><U></U><U></U>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dear
FIS & IS4SI Colleagues,<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"The
Age of Discord" was the title of a lecture that the historian and
sociologist Peter Turchin, founder of the Cliodynamics approach, gave
recently in the Netherlands. The slides can be easily obtained in the web
(in his blog). The content was mainly referring to a decades-long trend of
low progress and rise of inequality, and as a consequence growing social
unrest. It would form part of a secular oscillation in history... But I
think there is a new potent factor: the hyperconnectivity we talked weeks
ago.<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">These
days we are watching violent demonstrations in numerous countries: Chile,
Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, Nicaragua, Iran, Irak, Lebanon... plus Hongkong,
Spain (Barcelona), France (gilets jaunes), and the rising polarization from
Trumpism and Brexit. There is a contagion effect in some cases. But a common
factor is the influence of social networks. In several aspects:
<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--How
easy is to organize demonstrations and activist
concentrations.<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--How
easy is to disseminate information that efficiently counteracts governments'
efforts to maintain social order.
<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--How
easyly anger and hatred are shared among the masses, generating a collective
climate of insults, physical violence, highest
irritation.<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--How
easily outright lies, disinformation, vitriolic attacks are jumping from
screen to screen to the eyeballs of hypnotized
watchers.<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--The
proportion of "negative" to "positive" (say of emotional responses) has
become the highest in the history of
communication.<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">My
opinion is that the new media and new modalities of hyperconnection, still
deprived of constraining cultural patterns, are the genuine movers of this
"Age of Discord", without rejecting the other factors implied in Turchin
secular views. This time there is something really new agitating history and
the masses (like printing press, steam engines...). Is there hope that
collective intelligence will domesticate this artificial information flow
soon? Of course, without a loss of individual
freedoms.<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Best
wishes<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--Pedro<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P><PRE cols="72"><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-- <U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-------------------------------------------------<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Pedro C. Marijuán<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U> <U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target=_blank>pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</A><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target=_blank>http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</A><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">------------------------------------------------- <U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<FIELDSET></FIELDSET><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fis mailing list<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target=_blank>Fis@listas.unizar.es</A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target=_blank>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----------<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U> <U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <A href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" target=_blank>https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://listas.unizar.es" target=_blank>http://listas.unizar.es</A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----------<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P><PRE cols="72"><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-- <U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-------------------------------------------------<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Pedro C. Marijuán<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U> <U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target=_blank>pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target=_blank>http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2 face="Courier New"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">------------------------------------------------- <U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></PRE></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Fis
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>Fis@listas.unizar.es</A><BR><A
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</A><BR>----------<BR>INFORMACIÓN
SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<BR><BR>Ud. recibe este correo
por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de
Zaragoza.<BR>Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos
en el siguiente enlace: <A
href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas"
rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</A><BR>Recuerde
que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la
propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<BR><A
href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>http://listas.unizar.es</A><BR>----------<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>-- <BR>
<DIV class=gmail_signature dir=ltr>Professor Terrence W. Deacon<BR>University of
California, Berkeley</DIV>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>Fis mailing
list<BR>Fis@listas.unizar.es<BR>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis<BR>----------<BR>INFORMACISN
SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<BR><BR>Ud. recibe este correo por
pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de
Zaragoza.<BR>Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre como tratamos sus datos
en el siguiente enlace:
https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas<BR>Recuerde
que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la
propia aplicacisn en el momento en que lo
desee.<BR>http://listas.unizar.es<BR>----------<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>