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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>I will raise just my tiny voice to object to the term post-Human. It
is because Krassimir’s joke is underdetermined that Christophe’s
answer is problematic. The term could refer to the opposite of total anarchy, <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>e.g.</span></i>, total (mind) control/constraint by
an ‘unholy alliance’ of robots and Republicans. I suggest –
for discussion – that human anxiety (is there any other?) could be
reduced by using a term for the future in which the human aspect is enhanced,
say, post-Machine! I think it is along these lines that the deeply insightful satires
of Stanislaw Lem should be read.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";
color:navy'>Joseph <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Christophe Menant<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> lundi, 4 novembre 2019 11:41<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> FIS; Krassimir Markov<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] FIS
discussions. “constraints”</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:#FAF9F8'><font
size=4 color="#323130" face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'>Dear Krassimir, <br>
Thanks for your comments, <br>
I’m not sure that your usage of “information expectation”</span></font><span
lang=EN-US> is</span><font size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'> that similar to my usage of
“constraints” as a key component of meaning generation. A
constraint is for me a characteristic of the agent (like “stay alive”
for an animal, "limit anxiety for humans" or ”act as
programmed” for a robot). Can “information expectation” have
the same function? Perhaps you could tell us a bit more.<br>
Your joke is fine. A pre-biotic universe (no local constraint) as equal for you
to a post-human one => no constraint in a post-human universe => total
freedom & anarchy ..…<br>
As you can guess, the post-human I like to consider is different. It is mostly
about looking for a better mastering of our human anxiety limitation
constraints which have significant impacts on our mental lives. The
corresponding anxiety management processes are critical to our psychological
well-being. Their dis-functioning can be source of mental disorders and
illnesses. This looks to me as a needed aspect of a possible human future (</span></font><a
href="https://philpapers.org/rec/MENPFA-4"><span lang=EN-US>https://philpapers.org/rec/MENPFA-4</span></a><font
size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'>).<br>
Best <br>
Christophe</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div id=divRplyFwdMsg>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'>De :</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> Krassimir Markov <markov@foibg.com><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Envoyé :</span></b> dimanche 3 novembre 2019
15:37<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>À :</span></b> Christophe Menant <christophe.menant@hotmail.fr>;
FIS <fis@listas.unizar.es><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Objet :</span></b> Re: [Fis] FIS discussions.
“constraints”</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear </span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black;background:#FAF9F8'><span style='display:inline!important'>Christophe,</span></span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;background:#FAF9F8'><span
style='display:inline!important'>I remember your presentation.</span></span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;background:#FAF9F8'><span
style='display:inline!important'>What you call “constraints” I call
“information expectation”.</span></span></font><font size=4
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;background:#FAF9F8'><span
style='display:inline!important'>I think they are similar.</span></span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;background:#FAF9F8'><span
style='display:inline!important'>As a joke: </span></span></font><font
size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><i><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Pre-biotic universe is
equal to Post-Humans one !</span></font></i></em><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear Bruno,</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>To be specified one
needs another one who can specify him/her/it.</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Who can specify the
“the most highly specified object there can be" ?</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Friendly greetings</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Krassimir</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:christophe.menant@hotmail.fr" title="christophe.menant@hotmail.fr">Christophe
Menant</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Saturday, November 02,
2019 11:14 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu" title="ssalthe@binghamton.edu">Stanley N
Salthe</a> ; <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Re:
[Fis] FIS discussions. Units<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='background:#FAF9F8'><font size=3 color="#323130"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#323130'>Dear
Stan, <br>
</span></font><font size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>I
agree with your answer to Q4 positioning meaning and information as paving the
path from inanimate to animate.</span></font><font size=4 color="#323130"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>Let
me propose to complement your wording by saying that physical and chemical laws
exist everywhere (to characterize the inanimate). And that “harnessing
physical and chemical processes for the production of complex wholes”
(for the animate) can be understood as submitting physical and chemical
processes to the local constraints of the animate entity. </span></font><font
size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>An
important aspect is that physico-chemical laws apply everywhere, but local
constraints apply only at the location of the animate entity (like a
“stay alive” constraint). The difference is mostly in the locality
of the constraint associated to information and meaning for the animate entity.</span></font><font
size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>And
focusing on local constraints allows to introduce agency and autonomy quite
naturally:</span></font><font size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>We
can define an agent as an entity submitted to an internal constraint and
capable of action to satisfy the constraint. </span></font><font size=4
color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>Then,
an autonomous agent is an agent that can satisfy its constraints by its own. </span></font><font
size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>For
Q5, I also agree with your answer and would just propose a rewording: </span></font><font
size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>animate
objects use inanimate objects to satisfy their constraints (animate objects can
be animals, humans or artificial agents). </span></font><font size=4
color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>More
can be said in an evolutionary background about information, meaning and
constraint, starting at a pre-biotic level and looking at a possible post-human
one. You may remember an IS4SI 2017 presentation on that subject (</span></font><font
size=4 color=black><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><a
href="https://philpapers.org/rec/MENICA-2"><font size=3 color="#000099"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#000099;background:white'>https://philpapers.org/rec/MENICA-2</span></font></a></span></font><font
color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#323130'>) <br>
</span></font><font size=4 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
14.0pt;color:#323130'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color="#323130"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#323130;background:#FAF9F8'><span style='display:inline!important'>All
the best<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'></span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='background:#FAF9F8'><font size=2 color="#323130"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#323130;
background:#FAF9F8'><span style='display:inline!important'>Christophe</span></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="98%" align=center tabindex=-1 style='display:inline-block'>
</span></font></div>
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'>De :</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> de la part de Stanley N
Salthe <ssalthe@binghamton.edu><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Envoyé :</span></b> jeudi 31 octobre 2019
20:47<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>À :</span></b> fis
<fis@listas.unizar.es><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Objet :</span></b> Re: [Fis] FIS discussions.
Units</span></font><font color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Pedro -- my answers to
your two questions: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=xxgmail-p1><span class=xxgmail-s1><font size=3 color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Q4:
Does an informed path exist which logically organizes the inanimate into the
animate?</span></font></span><font color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p2><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>
Physics and chemistry are concerned with events that are
‘spontaneous’, requiring no ‘information’.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p3><span class=xxgmail-s1><font size=3 color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Biology,
however, is based in information, which harnesses physical and chemical
processes to the</span></font></span><font color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p3><span class=xxgmail-s1><font size=3 color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>production
of complex wholes. Biological systems and entities have, and are involved
with, meanings.</span></font></span><font color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p3><span class=xxgmail-s1><font size=3 color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Thus,
the ‘path’ from the inanimate to the animate is ‘paved’
with information. Meaning and information </span></font></span><font
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p3><span class=xxgmail-s1><font size=3 color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>entail
each other. </span></font></span><font color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p2><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Q5: What are
relationships between the inanimate objects and the animate objects?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p2><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>
Animate objects(systems) manipulate inanimate objects(resources).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=xxgmail-p2><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>STAN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>On Thu, Oct 31, 2019
at 9:06 AM Pedro C. Marijuan <<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>
<div>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Dear List,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Some brief responses to Jerry and Karl.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Q4: Does an informed
path exist which logically organizes the inanimate into the animate?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Q5: What are
relationships between the inanimate objects and the animate objects?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Hypothesis: If two
independent forms (parts) are copulated (linked, conjoined, connected, bound)
together, a novel interdependent informed whole is formed. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Hypothesis: A set of
atomic numbers can be composed into an animate object by copulating the set of
parts into a natural sort or kind (an organized whole). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Pedro: Do these
assertions add any light </span></font><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'> to you critical
quation about possible relationships between units, the animate and the
inanimate? Is any simpler scientific </span></font><font color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'>mathematics
possible?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Thanks for the abstraction effort, Jerry. Your
whole questions set is a very good discussion guide although enormously
difficult to be answered, at least in the biological realm. Even for a very
simple cell, eg the prokaryote (bacteria), the way its components are coupled and
the relationship they keep with their environment has not been properly put in
informational terms yet, as far as I know. A couple of years ago I made a
pretty complete catalogue of the "signaling parts" of E. coli, and
the result was surprising for me (see Marijuan et al., BioSystems, 2017). In a
few words, "nothing was eaten that had not been previously recognized by
some signaling apparatus". It is literal, for in the order of 200
'receptors' of all sort could check for 300 or more different types of 'food'
molecules. Putting in another way, the "energy flow" and the
"information flow" of the living cell are completely interrelated.
And the result of their 'logical' coupling is the systematic emergence of a
life cycle that includes reproduction --Spinoza's principle of conatus. What
kind of elegant informational/logical synthesis could be made (beyond the
ensuing Darwinian Dogma)? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Responding to Karl, I was surprised to find,
some posts ago, a critique of the equality sign. His idea, well argued from his
multidimensional partitions argument (equality hides from view the many
possible variable distributions of qualities inside the number's sumands), has
been coincidentally developed by other mathematicians in a different field:
"infinite categories". See the abstract below, (courtesy of Malcolm
Dean). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weight:bold'>With
Category Theory, Mathematics Escapes From Equality<br>
</span></font></b><i><font color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:
Calibri;color:black;font-style:italic'>Two monumental works have led many
mathematicians to avoid the equal sign. Their goal: Rebuild the foundations of
the discipline upon the looser relationship of “equivalence.” The
process has not always gone smoothly.</span></font></i><font color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Kevin Hartnett, Senior
Writer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quantamagazine.org%2Fwith-category-theory-mathematics-escapes-from-equality-20191010%2F%3Futm_source%3DQuanta%2BMagazine%26utm_campaign%3D388bce3947-RSS_Daily_Mathematics%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3D0_f0cb61321c-388bce3947-389912677%26mc_cid%3D388bce3947%26mc_eid%3D9dd29ead65&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d3a8c6458334f21a76108d75e3b544b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637081481216163667&sdata=DUerhREZ%2B6XeE0jAz4gGhfhnAKezmR3myml6HgaswtQ%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
shash="a3KiIZ5obvqxXeFeEm3KBISB2Z0bGf8L1sxz7odt/r0npSVl7H+gbJzs7GRgUqKQowfNGJUJK8vcnPUzTEjY1g10mo4br9ymtsUAzWFnKlbP33gtXRUgeWG4bZFO9+RI8coSo9jFbVFnlZiS+OnuD1lJNfHqBQEm5Sn7wSoDKBw="
originalsrc="https://www.quantamagazine.org/with-category-theory-mathematics-escapes-from-equality-20191010/?utm_source=Quanta+Magazine&utm_campaign=388bce3947-RSS_Daily_Mathematics&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f0cb61321c-388bce3947-389912677&mc_cid=388bce3947&mc_eid=9dd29ead65">https://www.quantamagazine.org/with-category-theory-mathematics-escapes-from-equality-20191010/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Quanta Magazine, 10
October 2019<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A;font-style:italic'>The
equal sign is the bedrock of mathematics. It seems to make an entirely
fundamental and uncontroversial statement: These things are exactly the same.</span></font></i><font
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=3 color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A;font-style:italic'>But
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>there is a growing community of
mathematicians who regard the equal sign as math’s original error</span></b>.
They see it as a veneer that hides important complexities in the way quantities
are related — complexities that could unlock solutions to an enormous
number of problems. They want to reformulate mathematics in the looser language
of equivalence. “We came up with this notion of equality,” said </span></font></i><i><font
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black;
font-style:italic'><a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jonathanacampbell.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d3a8c6458334f21a76108d75e3b544b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637081481216183683&sdata=5FOOUwFI2G6gdePBHzJnrwyGgjX1kvDrGnQVfhHb5DQ%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
shash="YTO3/xt/2sQNoFsp8zs/7rFx4/wODvmCPqG/j4M7/XIim6Ul/ALB0ijDjpiorLxtWb9qcLiahSnLDAMpAa7kjLqizKlUw/z6AMERwdv0xH8/SN/VlRFEg768Mp5GNoW4Wt7RYct5+Wjyrs4K0anu5ydDTiAllG7wTA7u62rLBQA="
originalsrc="http://www.jonathanacampbell.com/" style='box-sizing:border-box'>Jonathan
Campbell</a></span></font></i><i><font color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A;font-style:italic'> of Duke
University. “It should have been equivalence all along.” The most
prominent figure in this community is </span></font></i><i><font
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black;
font-style:italic'><a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ias.edu%2Fscholars%2Flurie&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d3a8c6458334f21a76108d75e3b544b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637081481216193706&sdata=6E3n8A9PiN3WlbCXMlUqZdtQah0zaZ6wkqUuVm6WCKc%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
shash="zBL1KEVx+44GY07CngtX2zMV6WMdNRchd6pMm1z+iaYEB10Uf3sUZ71+c3K2jSSLOEBXxyRi9dbin9XcbXD/Wfe4nZpv/DLHyB83ttrMAF65lLVk5GD7mj0mhFuzRZ14VM8YKX5aVDU6XGKNc7cJJOg4R20tQcrPNFaKrDMDJ6Y="
originalsrc="https://www.ias.edu/scholars/lurie" style='box-sizing:border-box'>Jacob
Lurie</a></span></font></i><i><font color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A;font-style:italic'>. In July, Lurie,
41, left his tenured post at Harvard University for a faculty position at the
Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey, home to many of the most
revered mathematicians in the world. Lurie’s ideas are sweeping on a
scale rarely seen in any field. Through his books, which span thousands of
dense, technical pages, he has constructed a strikingly different way to
understand some of the most essential concepts in math by moving beyond the
equal sign. “I just think he felt this was the correct way to think about
mathematics,” said </span></font></i><i><font color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-style:italic'><a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.math.harvard.edu%2F~mjh%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d3a8c6458334f21a76108d75e3b544b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637081481216203717&sdata=hS4PFJhW%2BmhbPHedrjEW36WpAHcMxximwggdGVgS80U%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
shash="Xqvs6KyRk9uAGjCB9pWmeWnYXwGyeI8SQTzpJhLvMMkbIeZefy5xpitcnFQ4uXabqORQWb2HLXs79kIzkv+Rzh1QZHYLWNu684Zck+kTB2Mau2E2IB7fFbf6uqDCpb8GzHTug3F4czdvyDmGLGdM7Z/3F0kcbqVdx1rJolFXOo4="
originalsrc="http://www.math.harvard.edu/~mjh/" style='box-sizing:border-box'>Michael
Hopkins</a></span></font></i><i><font color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A;font-style:italic'>, a mathematician
at Harvard and Lurie’s graduate school adviser. Lurie published his first
book, </span></font></i><i><font color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-style:italic'><a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpress.princeton.edu%2Fbooks%2Fpaperback%2F9780691140490%2Fhigher-topos-theory-am-170&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d3a8c6458334f21a76108d75e3b544b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637081481216223721&sdata=Yq5%2Fb1ph%2BjWx%2Fc1evVvqcAk045dLS3%2BJ7Mp3VlApGdM%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
shash="YJvyOdMLu/ExTLADmVWnbyO0/eVG0PrF/qQBAIFYN4mL1QNrROZo7b8hx6G/hYYvWyE/ok4zqlCJzf6uQFKWtUINDId3BHgISDko02JCS+NQ12OuEWHbk2kDnnhZW6S90VePUZwvxKSzTKniQ4rBmPxeDI1fQ5Pst7c01itR5xY="
originalsrc="https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691140490/higher-topos-theory-am-170"
style='box-sizing:border-box'><em style='box-sizing:border-box'><i><font
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri'>Higher Topos Theory</span></font></i></em></a></span></font></i><i><font
color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A;
font-style:italic'>, in 2009. The 944-page volume serves as a manual for how to
interpret established areas of mathematics in the <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>new language of “infinity categories.”</span></b> In the
years since, Lurie’s ideas have moved into an increasingly wide range of
mathematical disciplines. Many mathematicians view them as indispensable to the
future of the field. “No one goes back once they’ve learned
infinity categories,” said </span></font></i><i><font color=black
face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-style:italic'><a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fsites.math.northwestern.edu%2F~jnkf%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d3a8c6458334f21a76108d75e3b544b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637081481216233732&sdata=Ylo6jQ2Jl0kjfZ8enhUH%2Fjg%2FLP908SffeJ3zkGFH4Ng%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
shash="kc+fWEpHlXWef2KgwXNIrakRXPpXKQ669PQNwiip1QGS/Jf41NK4WZBtn5xHvoLrCoZj0GHUUSoQU8u8asrg4XiI06HD9k+KkCw9fpjtr+WBGhIVabiktBPdn2l/oKZs5sa9qVbQECAJymtwY9J214nmzcpe0OxZrP1PszWYnbg="
originalsrc="https://sites.math.northwestern.edu/~jnkf/" style='box-sizing:border-box'>John
Francis</a></span></font></i><i><font color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A;font-style:italic'> of
Northwestern University.</span></font></i><font color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A'>So... very good
point by Karl! Could new mathematical ideas provide the bio-mathematical
(informational) synthesis needed?</span></font><font color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A'>Best wishes to all,</span></font><font
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#1a1a1a" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1A1A1A'>--Pedro</span></font><font
color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<pre cols=72><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Pedro C. Marijuán<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fpedrocmarijuan%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d3a8c6458334f21a76108d75e3b544b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637081481216253736&sdata=EVmk4bSTr%2BdmjpcXW3K3tBcoxizsYkqq%2BVpHQ1GwjfE%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
shash="gyy+ngoZ5DH46vHwMvipIToqJyoz+4qvVHDa2M5NdaJv8GtKRYMktGYNjJjsc3ZrwcSVU9AIN4gVLUq0x27X6gmpz5Y64j/qUlV9iC5weEYDW8K49qg6IhUO0edntyp95ntWbV9Bfqfizrfaoy4mZC6kMEWYTl3nyaE+F5+oKdw="
originalsrc="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>------------------------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<div id="x_x_gmail-m_5120355113145070132DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la
Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
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