<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This re-posted because the first sending was not distributed.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Jerry LR Chandler <<a href="mailto:jerry_lr_chandler@icloud.com" class="">jerry_lr_chandler@icloud.com</a>><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re: [Fis] FIS discussions</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">October 13, 2019 at 10:56:19 PM CDT<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:annette.grathoff@is4si.org" class="">annette.grathoff@is4si.org</a><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Annette, List <br class=""><div class=""><br style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="font-size: 15px;" class="">On Oct 13, 2019, at 4:04 PM, <a href="mailto:annette.grathoff@is4si.org" class="">annette.grathoff@is4si.org</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="font-size: 15px;"><div class=""><p style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif, Arial, Verdana, "Trebuchet MS"; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none;" class="">The next huge difficulty (connected to the unclear status of matter) is to model the influence of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em class="">what makes a difference</em><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>on relationships which enable matter. Threshold levels are nice, but how can the quality of relationships be in-formed through the special quality (pattern) carried and transmitted by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em class="">a difference which makes a difference</em>? Philosophy helps us in understanding how meaningful communication can develop in contextual environments and Sociology hints to connections between meaningfulness and stability respectively cooperation and trust. But this both is observed in very highly developed systems and provides little help for understanding more basic dynamics. Regarding those, I bet on wave mechanics to promote our basic knowledge here (but you know that I got very involved in this in my project, so bias is not excluded).</p><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class=""><font size="4" class="">What are the objectives of the inquiry into the scientific nature of information? It seems that the very name, FIS, suggests that Shannon information is insufficient for scientific information. One might ask “Why”? Is it because of the nature of matter? Do the constraints on the nature of matter the boundary of the concept of information? </font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">One aspect of Shannon information is that it requires that the transmissible form of information be represented in terms of bits and bytes. Indeed, bits and bytes are the only permissible forms of representation of Shannon information. The units of Shannon information are numeric of indefinite magnitude, are they not? As numeric units, Shannon units are unbounded in scale and are unlimited in scope. This fact that Shannon information can represent unbounded scales (magnitudes) is one key element of the wildly successful theory.</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">Another aspect of information is the scope of the meanings of information. What are the limits on the scope of Shannon information? How are the scope of the bits and bytes represented in the the theory? Is the scope of a Shannon message constrained numerically in any way? If so, how is the scope of information represented in a Shannon message?</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">The Shannon hypothesis of Information is that all communication can be encoded into transmissible forms of numbers that contain the message.</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">Does the same hypothesis, the same critical concept, apply to the neighboring concept of real scientific information, that is, the natural forms of scientific information as used by working scientists (physicists, engineers, chemists, biologists, physicians, ecologists, and other specialists)?</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: large;" class=""> Is this a conundrum?</span></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">Or, it merely a matter of "getting the physics right”?</font></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: large;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: large;" class="">By the way, I would argue that the clarity of the </span><font size="4" class="">status of matter, i.e., the chemical table of elements and their compositions, augmented by a huge range of physical measurements that span variables from all physical units of measure, is vastly clearer than any theory of physics. </font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""> Does not the theory of wave mechanics emanate from the physics of atoms and composites? Or, shall we simply agree that the relationships from between physical theories form a “which came first, the chicken or the egg?”</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">Cheers</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">Jerry</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class="">“The union of units unite the unity."</font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font size="4" class=""><br class=""></font></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>