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<p>(It should have appeared on Friday... again a blocked list??)<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
-------- Mensaje reenviado --------
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Asunto:
</th>
<td>Re: [Fis] New Perspectives. Reply to Bruno's Reply to
Stan</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Fecha: </th>
<td>Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:06:45 +0200</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">De: </th>
<td>Pedro C. Marijuan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a></td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Para: </th>
<td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a></td>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear All,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It is quite nice listening to all
these exchanges after the "diet" of past months. I have a few
lateral comments to make:</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">1. Natural philosophy is not
religiously laden but it is quite "modern". It was used along
the scientific revolution, mostly around Newton's time, to
separate from scholastic philosophy (Wooton, 2015). Actually it
becomes the intellectual expression of the fundamental
revolution that had been taking place around the printing press
and the accelerated circulation of ideas in the Western World.
The term science was non-existing at that time and only the
trivium-quadrivium ancient framework was at hand... so, natural
philosophy (as Lars-Goran points) was a growing consensus along
a new view of the world and of knowledge, irrespective that one
could ad of subtract his/her religious personal background. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">2. About religious legacies, we
cannot complain so much. Priesthood was a way of living, much
like civil servants today, or "tenure" in the university system.
By the way, Western universities are a religious legacy
themselves. They were the transplantation to the urban milieu of
the highly successful formula of the monastic system. During
long centuries, after the disintegration of the Roman Empire, it
was the widespread diffusion of monastic institutions what kept
afloat the knowledge system in a chaotic world. Technologies
were tremendously developed there, together with the "mechanical
arts" (term of monastic origins). It represented the social
elevation of the previously practical skills reserved to
servants.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">3. OK, coming back to our exchanges,
it is very exciting the philosophical discussion per se, but if
it is not related to the scientific & technological changes
of today (see comments from Gordana) it will be of scarce help
in the "daunting task" (Joseph) we have at hand. I will insist,
notwithstanding the healthy skepticism of my FIS colleagues,
that we have BIG PIECES of new biomolecular knowledge (a genuine
bioinfo revolution still taking place) waiting to be translated
into general conceptualizations of multidisciplinary and
philosophical fields. And I will keep trying it...<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">By the way, Bruno has made very
intriguing points that I think dovetail with my comments on laws
of nature many weeks ago. Often we really speak different
tongues, and mutual comprehension becomes blurred. But that's
part of the intrigue and charm of our unending exchanges. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">And this my second cent for this
week. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best--Pedro<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 14/06/2019 a las 11:06, Loet
Leydesdorff escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:em17d8614f-ceb2-4a42-ac5d-ab7c6d2a22ab@pc2014">
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<div>Dear Lars-Goran and colleagues, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<blockquote
cite="44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se"
type="cite" class="cite2">Since I consider myself as a
natural philosopher, or in modern terms, philosopher of
science, I want to protest against the last statement Loet
made, viz., that natural philosophy is based on ’data’ and
that data is to be identified what that what is given to us
from nature. </blockquote>
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">I
did not say so; but I pointed to the basis of natural
philosophy in a religion (Christianity, Protestantism) in
which one assumes that nature is given to us as "data" in a
Revelation. The data is not given by nature, but in Nature.
We can read the book of Nature (Galilei).</div>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se"
type="cite" class="cite2">The basis from our thinking about
nature is observation sentences which people agree upon, no
matter what cultural, scientific or religious beliefs they
have. </blockquote>
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">This
seems pre-Popper to me. </div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding:
0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">The empirical basis of
objective science has thus nothing 'absolute'</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">about it.' Science does not
rest upon solid bedrock. The bold structure</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">of its theories rises, as
it were, above a swamp. It is like a building</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">erected on piles. The piles
are driven down from above into the</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">swamp, but not down to any
natural or 'given' base; and if we stop</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">driving the piles deeper,
it is not because we have reached firm</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">ground. We simply stop when
we are satisfied that the piles are firm</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div id="x2a7a42cbfbf94b7" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;">enough to carry the
structure, at least for the time being.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#1b1b1b"><span
style="font-size: 14.6667px;">
<div><font color="#1b1b1b"><span><br>
</span></font></div>
The Logic of Scientific Discovery, [1935] , 1959, p. 111.<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding:
0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div><span
style="color:#1B1B1B;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Times
New Roman;font-size:11pt;"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#1b1b1b"><span
style="font-size: 14.6667px;">Most of us, including myself,
consider themselves as even more constructivist than Popper
after having read Kuhn.</span></font>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<blockquote
cite="44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se"
type="cite" class="cite2"><br>
<div class="">Furthermore I accept the basic tenet of
Kant’s epistemology, viz., that object in the natural
world are our constructions; they result from our
judgements (in modern terms, agreed observation
sentences). Many people think that this view leads to an
unacceptable subjectivism, but it does not, since the
basis consists of sentences which we jointly assent too.
So nothing is given to us.</div>
<div class=""><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">In my opinion, this is a
religious issue. Some of us may beleive that the world is
given in a revelation. Thus, the reason "why nothing is
given to us" may be different between us. </div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;"><br>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">Best,</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">Loet</div>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se"
type="cite" class="cite2">
<div class="">Lars-Göran <br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">14 juni 2019 kl. 06:56 skrev Loet
Leydesdorff <<a
href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>>:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> Dear
colleagues, </div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> <br
class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> We should
keep in mind, in my opinion, that "natural
philosophy" was embedded in a religious culture.
From this perspective, the world is "given" to
us in a Revelation by God.</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> <br
class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> In the
antique world, the sacred was hidden and only
accessible via the priests. </div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> <br
class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> Natural
philosophy is based on the conclusion that we
can directly access nature as "data", that is,
givens. Alternatively, one can consider the
world as "facta"'; that is, we have only access
to nature via models.</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> <br
class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> Best, </div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> Loet</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> <br
class="">
</div>
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text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
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none;" class="">
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<div id="x78c9f4c0540648e7b564d127ae9a7d74"
style="font-family: "Segoe UI";
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<span
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Leydesdorff<span
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<span
style="font-size:
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73, 125);" class="">Professor
emeritus, University
of Amsterdam<br
class="">
Amsterdam School of
Communication
Research (ASCoR)<o:p
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" class=""></o:p></span></div>
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class=""><a
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class=""
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style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net<span
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style="font-size:
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73, 125);" class="">;<span
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84, 106);" class=""><a
href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/"
style="color:
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style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:
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73, 125);" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</span><span
style="font-size:
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Faculty,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="color:
rgb(68, 84, 106);"
class=""><a
href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/"
style="color:
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class=""
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style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">SPRU,<span
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style="font-size:
9pt;" class="">University
of Sussex;<span
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xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span
style="font-size:
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Professor<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="color:
rgb(68, 84, 106);"
class=""><a
href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/"
style="color:
rgb(149, 79, 114);
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:
9pt;" class="">,
Hangzhou; Visiting
Professor,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="color:
rgb(68, 84, 106);"
class=""><a
href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html"
style="color:
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class=""
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style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">ISTIC,<span
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style="font-size:
9pt;" class="">Beijing;<o:p
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span
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Fellow,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="color:
rgb(68, 84, 106);"
class=""><a
href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/"
style="color:
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underline;"
class=""
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style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:
9pt;" class="">,
University of
London;<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<div class=""><font
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<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
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word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> ------
Original Message ------</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> From:
"Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic" <<a
href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se</a>></div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> To:
"Bruno Marchal" <<a
href="mailto:marchal@ulb.ac.be" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">marchal@ulb.ac.be</a>>;
"fis" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> Sent:
6/14/2019 6:45:17 AM</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""> Subject:
[Fis] New Perspectives. Reply to Bruno's Reply
to Stan</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
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class="">
</div>
<div id="x26fc024ebc1f462" style="caret-color:
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<blockquote
cite="x-msg://53/B3C5A0F9-5816-4A96-8DF8-8641A3C13F59@mdh.se"
type="cite" class="cite2" style="margin-left:
5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 0px; border-left-width: 1px;
border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin-top: 3px;
padding-top: 0px;">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Dear Bruno,<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">I have a few questions to
your answers and would be happy if you
can help me to understand.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Here they come, following
formulations from your mail.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US">“This seems to
assume some primary natural reality,
isn’t it?”<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Q: What is meant
by “primary natural reality”?<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">1. If it refers to the<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">EXISTENCE</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>OF
THE EXTERNAL/INTERNAL NATURAL WORLD, I
think this is the most reasonable
hypothesis to start with:<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">The world/nature
EXISTS.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">It is the fundamental
assumption of all sciences which are our
best present knowledge about the world.<b
class=""><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></b></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Otherwise, if the world
does not EXIST, we can conclude any
discussion about it.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">2. The other question is<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">HOW</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>that
EXISTENCE of the world outside/inside
cognitive agents presents itself or
unfolds in an agent in the interaction
with the world.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">That is the question of
UMWELT, and the construction of
knowledge through information
processing. (Natural information
processing = natural computation.)<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">The “primary natural
reality” reflects itself in a myriad of
local “realities” in cognizing agents.
As we know from empirical observations,
even though existence of the world
induces various information processes in
various agents, communities of agents
are typically sharing common “languages”
about that “primary natural reality”.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">That is true for bacterial
as well as for human communities.
Languages reflect our ability to
collectively navigate “primary natural
reality” and share common references. So
much so that we are able to commonly
build a new semantic layer, that is
human culture, upon that “primary
natural reality”.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US">“As I have
shown, this requires a non
computationalist theory of mind, which
seems to me to be highly speculative.”<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Q:</span></b><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">Why would that follow from
the EXISTENCE of the world?</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">What kind of phenomenon is
that “computation” which minds
perform?<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Is
it the Turing model of discrete
sequential symbol manipulation –
calculation of mathematical function? It
may at best describe linguistic part of
the mind. But mind as a natural process
is both data-based (even continuous
data) and symbol based. Not Turing
computable in it entirety, but
“naturally computable” i.e. the result
of natural information processing
performed by living embodied minds.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US">“I am not sure
we can avoid the mind-body problem in
a philosophy of information context</span></b><span
class="" lang="EN-US">.”<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Q: Why? Natural
information processes in living
organisms seem to me as the best way
to bridge the mind-body chasm</span></b><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">. Mind is a result of a
complex network of networks of
information processes going on in a
cognizing agent. That process is
implemented in their bodies as a
material substrate that is
self-organized structure growth from
that<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">“primary natural reality”</b>.
There is no contradiction between the
morphology (shape, structure, material)
of an organism and its functions
(processes performed by that morphology.
At least those organisms who have
nervous systems capable of representing
their bodies and their relationships to
their environments can be seen as
possessing intrinsic “self-models” or
simply having “self” or “mind”. That
“mind” is the result of the
relationships of its subsystems that
constitute that “self”, that process
which for an organism makes a
distinction between the “self” vs. the
world and the relationships between the
two.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Mind is a process, matter
is its substrate on which the process is
going on. Those are inseparable in a
living organism. In-formation has it
roots in the concept of formation (of a
material substrate). Matter and form are
two aspects of the same reality. It is
not a problem, it is a way how we
conceptualize the world, in order to
manage its complexity.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US">“There are no
evidences for physicalism or for a
physical primary reality, nor are
there evidences for a non
computationalist theory of mind.”<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Q: What is meant
with “physicalism” here?<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Wikipedia offers two
different definitions,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism" style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>according
to which<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Physicalism</span></b><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"> is the </span><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical" title="Metaphysical"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span class=""
lang="EN-US">metaphysical</span></a></span><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"> thesis assuming that<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">a)<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">"everything is physical"</b>,
that there is "nothing over and above"
the physical,</span><sup class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class=""><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism#cite_note-1"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
class="" lang="EN-US">[1]</span></a></span></sup><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"> or<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">b) that<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">everything </b></span><b
class=""><span style="color: rgb(4, 50,
255);" class=""><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervenience"
title="Supervenience" style="color:
purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
class="" lang="EN-US">supervenes</span></a></span></b><b
class=""><span style="color: rgb(4, 50,
255);" class="" lang="EN-US"> on the
physical</span></b><span style="color:
rgb(4, 50, 255);" class="" lang="EN-US">.</span><sup
class=""><span style="color: rgb(4, 50,
255);" class=""><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism#cite_note-DStoljar-2"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">[2]</a></span></sup><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Those are two very
different proposals. The first one is
obviously false, as it negates all the
emergent levels of organization of the
world above physics.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">The second one depends on
what is meant by “<b class="">supervenience”</b>.
If it means that<b class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>higher
levels of organization of matter-energy
emerge from the lower ones bringing
completely new properties, it is in
perfect agreement with what sciences
today say about the world and how they
model the world.*<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Molecules are made of atoms
but bring completely new possibilities
of structures, processes and
interactions. Biology is more than
chemistry for the same reason.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Q: What would be
“a physical primary reality”?<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Am I wrong if I imagine
that I cannot go out of this room
through its walls? Does not that mean
that there is “a physical primary
reality” that stops me from doing so, no
matter how much I wish and try?<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US">“Of course some
people confuse the evidences for
physical laws with evidences that such
laws are primary, but that is just
because they “believe” in some natural
world to begin with.”<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Q: What is
primary?</span></b><b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Indeed, physical laws are
not<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">primary</b>, in the sense of
eternal and unchangeable, as they evolve
with the universe*. Primary is the<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">EXISTENCE</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of
the world that we all share and
experience. It presents itself in both
fluid, intrinsic ways (subjective
feelings and emotions) and crisp, well
defined inter-subjective forms (as in
sciences, logics, mathematics).</span><b
class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-US">“We can’t have
both Mechanism in cognitive science,
and materialism, or just physicalism,
in the “natural science”. That has
been shown logically inconsistent.”<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">It depends on the choice of
“mechanism”, “cognitive science”
(classical-computationalist disembodied
or contemporary EEEE models of
cognition), along with the kind of
“physicalism” assumed, and even the
choice of “natural sciences” to support
your thesis. In the paper below (*) I
argue, for a given choice of all those
terms and with heavy reliance on the
contemporary scientific knowledge, that
computational mind is not only
(naturally) compatible but essentially
dependent on its physical substrate on
succession of levels of organization.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="" lang="EN-US">Q: If we have
such model<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">in which “mechanisms” of
information processing (natural
computation in the framework of
computing nature) from the lowest levels
of exchanges between elementary
particles to the highest levels of
exchanges among people of symbolic
structures and artifacts, wouldn’t that
constitute a counter-example to the
claim that mind and body have nothing to
do with each other ? (**)<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">All the best,<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">Gordana<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">*<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://www.gordana.se/work/PUBLICATIONS-files/2019-Laws%20of%20Science%20as%20Laws%20of%20Nature.pdf"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);"
class="">http://www.gordana.se/work/PUBLICATIONS-files/2019-Laws%20of%20Science%20as%20Laws%20of%20Nature.pdf</span></a><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="color: rgb(4, 50, 255);" class=""
lang="EN-US">** No model or framework
can explain everything about the world
(including humans) at the same time, but
info-computational approach can be used
to model some interesting aspects of the
mind emergent from, in interaction with
its matter/energy substrate.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color:
rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Fis
<<a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>>
on behalf of Bruno Marchal <<a
href="mailto:marchal@ulb.ac.be"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">marchal@ulb.ac.be</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Date:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Thursday,
13 June 2019 at 15:11<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>fis
<<a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re:
[Fis] New Perspectives. Reply to Stan<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> Joseph,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""> On 12 Jun 2019, at
16:40, Joseph Brenner <<a
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB">Stan,</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB">Thank
you for your question. I reply
with a modified excerpt from
an article in<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">Philosophies.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i>The full article is Open
Access. I am indebted to
Rafael Capurro for part of
this formulation. Comments
welcome.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB">Best
wishes,</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB">Joseph</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
text-align: justify;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">Natural Philosophy:
Excerpt from Brenner, J. 2018.
The Naturalization of Natural
Philosophy.<span
class="apple-converted-space"><i
class=""> </i></span><i
class="">Philosophies<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">2018<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i>3,
41.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
text-align: justify; text-indent:
35.4pt;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">Natural Philosophy
deals with the question of
nature as a whole stated by
beings (ourselves) that find
themselves in nature without
having the possibility of a
holistic view, being ourselves
in nature and not beyond it. The
fact that we are able to ask
this question means that we have
some kind of pre-knowledge about
nature as a whole while at the
same time this pre-knowledge is
problematic, otherwise we would
not ask the question and would
not be able to become natural
philosophers.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
text-align: justify; text-indent:
35.4pt;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">The question then
changes to the difference
between nature and reality as a
whole, including fictions,
non-verifiable beliefs and
intangible objects of thought.
Since the idea that classical
Natural Philosophy evolved into
science seems correct, we
are left, for the domain
of Natural Philosophy, with
only a speculative
interpretation of nature viewed
in its entirety. This
interpretation is,<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">ipso facto</i>, at a
lower ontological level than the
science which has largely
replaced it. Much of the 20th
Century linguistic turn,
expressed in both analytical and
phenomenological and residual
transcendental traditions, is
well visible in contemporary
philosophy.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
text-align: justify; text-indent:
35.4pt;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">The reaction to
this unsatisfactory state of
affairs has been the
reinstatement of realisms and
materialisms of various kinds,
associated today with the names
of Derrida, Badiou, Zizek, and
others. The ‘ontological turn’
in philosophy is a term of art
that designates dissatisfaction
with descriptions of reality
based on analytical, semantic
criteria of truth. Starting with
Heidegger’s critique of
hermeneutics and the basing of
philosophy on human life, the
ontological turn is a challenge
to neo-Kantian epistemologies,
and looks to what the structure
of the world might be like to
enable scientific, that is,
non-absolute knowledge.
Unfortunately, ontological
theories have been hobbled by
the retention of static terms
whose characteristics are
determined by bivalent logic. In
2002, Priest suggested that such
an ontological turn in
philosophy was taking place,
away from language in the
direction of an contradictorial
view of reality. Priest proposed
paraconsistent logic as
appropriate to this turn, but
his system suffers from the
epistemological limitations of
paraconsistency. Lupasco, on the
other hand, anticipated the
ontological turn by some 60
years. (In the complete article,
I show that his logical system
can be used to differentiate
between Natural Philosophy and
Philosophy<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">tout court.</i>)</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
text-align: justify; text-indent:
35.4pt;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">The most important
point for me is that Natural
Philosophy tells us something
real about the world that is
consistent with our best
science, physical, biological
and cognitive. Speculative
philosophy can always
re-illuminate ‘eternal’
questions such as what it means
to be a thinking being in a
non-thinking environment. This
non-Natural Philosophy, to
repeat, exists for ‘natural’
reasons: it is a natural
necessity for human beings to
create it, by a natural process,
but it is not part of nature<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">qua</i><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>content.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> This
seems to assume some primary natural
reality, isn’t it?<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> As I
have shown, this requires a non
computationalist theory of mind,
which seems to me to be highly
speculative.<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> I am
not sure we can avoid the mind-body
problem in a philosophy of
information context. <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
There are no evidences for
physicalism or for a physical
primary reality, nor are there
evidences for a non computationalist
theory of mind. Of course some
people confuse the evidences for
physical laws with evidences that
such laws are primary, but that is
just because they “believes” in some
natural world to begin with. I think
it is better to be agnostic and see
where the facts (experimental) and
working theories lead us.<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> We
can’t have both Mechanism in
cognitive science, and materialism,
or just physicalism, in the “natural
science”. That has been shown
logically inconsistent (ask for
reference if interested).<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
Bruno<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif; color:
navy;" class="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Arial,
sans-serif; color: navy;"
class="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; text-align:
center;" align="center"> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">
<hr class="" width="100%"
size="0" align="center"> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <b
class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Fis [<a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stanley
N Salthe<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>mardi,
11 juin 2019 21:09<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>fis<br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Fis] New Perspectives</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;"
class="">Joseph -- Would you
like to write how you define
Natural Philosophy?<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class="">STAN<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times New
Roman", serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class="">On Tue, Jun 11,
2019 at 12:03 PM<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Joseph
Brenner<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style:
none none none solid;
border-left-width: 1pt;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204,
204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;
margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US">Dear
Pedro and All,</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US">Many
thanks are due to you,
Pedro, for this new and
valuable formulation of
the – daunting - task at
hand. The task is
logical and
philosophical, as well
as scientific.
Philosophy here,
exemplified by the
Philosophy of
Information, does not
mean standard
discussions of ‘where
did we come from’ and
‘does a transcendent
deity exist’, which are
as sterile in their way
as the excesses of the
IT and AI ideologists.
Natural Philosophy can
be a ‘vehicle’ for
interaction between
people of good will, the
collaboration that you
point to that may help
to advance IS4SI. Some
of you who may not have
been at the Conference
in San Francisco
(Berkeley) may wish to
look at abstracts of
papers from the
Philosophy of
Information
sub-conferences at the
2015, 2017 and 2019
Summit conferences on
Information.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US">To
revitalize the list is
indeed a key first step.
But it starts, in my
opinion, with some
self-examination,
examination of whether
one’s own theories are
just ‘pet’ theories.
Applying this criterion
to my own Logic in
Reality, about which I
have written on several
occasions, I claim that
it is not just a pet
theory. It is a new
perspective on how
information, logic and
thought operate as real
processes, following
laws within the laws of
physics, without loss of
a human, ethical
dimension. However, LIR
makes many demands on
one. It requires an
understanding and
acceptance of what is /<i
class="">not</i>/
Natural Philosophy,
which may include some
of the ideas that have
appeared in this list.
</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US">Again,
accepting my own
criterion of interactive
non-separability, I do
not call for any
exclusions or
limitations on the list.
I only wish that
everyone makes the
necessary effort to
position his or her own
views in relation to the
overriding need for
furthering the Common
Good. The sum of all
such honest
self-referential (or
second-order recursive)
opinions of people about
their own work would
itself be a useful
creative effort, I
think.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US">Thank
you and best wishes,</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-family:
"Lucida Sans
Unicode", serif;"
class="" lang="EN-US">Joseph<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">-----Original
Message-----<br class="">
From: Fis [mailto:<a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]
On Behalf Of Pedro C.
Marijuan<br class="">
Sent: mardi, 11 juin
2019 13:05<br class="">
To: 'fis'<br class="">
Subject: [Fis] New
Perspectives</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">Dear FIS
Colleagues,</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">A few days
ago took place the IS4SI
Meeting, in SFco, with
one of the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">parallel
sessions devoted to FIS
and other sessions also
with presence<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">of veteran
parties of this list.
Relevant speakers in the
plenary<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">sessions
covered the main topic
of the conference,
expressed as: Where<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">is the I in
Artificial Intelligence
and the Meaning in
Information? From<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">Tristan
Harris to Melanie
Mitchell, to Paul
Verschure, etc.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">In my view
the perspectives in
these IT fields are
changing<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">significantly.
The tremendous hype in
AI, Deep Learning, IOT,
etc. keeps<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">unabated,
but critical voices are
being heard, not just
from a few<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">Academia
corners as usual, but
now by leading
technologists and<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">researchers
of big companies in
these very fields.
"Dissent" on the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">contents,
methodologies, and
consequences of social
applications is growing.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">The
industrial development
of this IT sector
--notwithstanding the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">inflated
proclamations and all
the hype of the gurus--
does not mean the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">arrival of
some great singularity,
or the symbiosis with
machines, or<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">widespread
menace of robots &
cyborgs... these are
slogans coming from<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">the
industrialists to
maintain
social/ideological
preeminence for their<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">whole
sector. Rather I think
they are starting to
feel the consequences<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">of their
social overstretching in
different ways.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">The
fundamental point, in my
opinion, is that our
solitary, isolated<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">efforts
from a few Academia
places (Sciences &
Humanities) in the quest<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">for new
perspectives in
Information Science, and
not just AI<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">development,
should not isolated any
more. We can now
establish an<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">interesting
dialog and partnership
with those new
"dissenters" of the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">technology
in its concepts,
methods, and social
applications. It is upon<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">us to
improve the discussion
procedures, the
collaborations, the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">organization,
etc. so that this
opportunity might
materialize<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">progressively.
Do not ask me how... In
any case I pointed out
three<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">future
directions for IS4SI
advancement: community
building, attracting<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family:
"Times New
Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">scientific/technological
avantgarde, and
organizational
improvement.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">Revitalizing
this discussion
list--shouldn't it be
one of the first steps?</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">Best
greetings to all,</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">--Pedro</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">-------------------------------------------------</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">Pedro C.
Marijuán</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">Grupo de
Bioinformación /
Bioinformation Group</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fpedrocmarijuan%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786234083&sdata=rRk9RxUKvWoq1nnH7eSkg5gRTil1tVUTgTK0pDa5Ihg%3D&reserved=0"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">-------------------------------------------------</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">---</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">El software
de antivirus Avast ha
analizado este correo
electrónico en busca de
virus.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
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lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirus&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786234083&sdata=Wbrn7sp1W%2Fg4GOIdAmb0U1geydhcdm%2FOX6Hu5N7Lc3k%3D&reserved=0"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
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lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Courier
New";" class=""
lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
style="font-size: 10pt;
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"Courier
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lang="EN-US">Fis mailing
list</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
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New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
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class="gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"
style="margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 0cm;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
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style="font-size: 10pt;
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lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p
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style="margin-right: 0cm;
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font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"> <span
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class=""><o:p
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<div
id="gmail-m_8386423096837602299DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"
class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""> <span
style="font-size:
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class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<table
class="MsoNormalTable"
style="border-style: solid
none none;
border-top-width: 1pt;
border-top-color: rgb(211,
212, 222);"
cellspacing="3"
cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody class="">
<tr class="">
<td style="width:
27.5pt; border:
none; padding: 9pt
0.75pt 0.75pt;"
class="" width="37">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786244082&sdata=E3huy%2FK%2BF2q8BQYe%2FpMNb5mXlwom5sE3WuctW2DVN2M%3D&reserved=0"
style="color:
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class=""
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style="font-size: 12pt; text-decoration: none;" class=""><img
id="_x0000_i1025"
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width="46"
height="29"
border="0"></span></a></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
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<td style="width:
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class="" width="313">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
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font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
line-height:
9pt;" class="">
<span
style="font-size:
6.5pt;
font-family:
Arial,
sans-serif;
color: rgb(65,
66, 78);"
class="">Garanti
sans virus.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786254081&sdata=TeOIk53ReL3Aw0mMz3wLptFb2cmnkwV7enRUKCWARyo%3D&reserved=0"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
rgb(68, 83,
234);"
class="">www.avast.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;"
class=""><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <span
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;"
class="">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
Fis mailing list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786254081&sdata=NgDErO3w5%2B7%2FDm3G3dobqSaXFjrR6EAlvN32HliQgpM%3D&reserved=0"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown"
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Fis mailing list<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786264068&sdata=%2F3c%2BLJrQ9VLXSWXyuWjGNwdxCc2QSslqv%2BIyz%2F1ooX8%3D&reserved=0"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
xmlns:o="#unknown" class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
display: inline !important;" class="">Fis
mailing list</span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Segoe UI";
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letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration:
none;" class="">
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
style="font-family: "Segoe UI";
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font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<a
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
style="font-family: "Segoe UI";
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text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">Lars-Göran Johansson<br class="">
Professor i teoretisk filosofi, emeritus<br class="">
Uppsala Universitet<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<title>Page Title</title>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
När du har kontakt med oss på Uppsala universitet med
e-post så innebär det att vi behandlar dina
personuppgifter. För att läsa mer om hur vi gör det kan du
läsa här: <a
href="http://www.uu.se/om-uu/dataskydd-personuppgifter/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.uu.se/om-uu/dataskydd-personuppgifter/</a>
<br>
<br>
E-mailing Uppsala University means that we will process
your personal data. For more information on how this is
performed, please read here: <a
href="http://www.uu.se/en/about-uu/data-protection-policy"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.uu.se/en/about-uu/data-protection-policy</a>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" moz-do-not-send="true">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
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