<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span style="line-height:1.5">Karl -- the overall key concept that I promote in my work is DEVELOPMENT. In one way or another we can find (or, I have been motivated to find) this concept at play (in greater or lesser degree) in the works of the thinkers shown on my diagram. That they are so many and various demonstrates the power of the cultural constraints that have been at play. What is this concept? It can be pictured in the sequence: IMMATURITY -> MATURITY -> SENESCENCE, the latter of which terminates in failure/collapse/destruction -> elimination. All material dissipative structures go through these stages, if they are not terminated by ‘accidents’ before senescence. An important (indeed Key!) aspect of this process that would be of interest to those on this listserve is the accumulation of informational constraints during development. These constraints may allow immediate adaptation to conditions, but being material, cannot be eliminated by a system, which instead builds upon them. In this way a system accumulates a jerry-built material manifestation that becomes increasingly incompetent in the task of evading the ever new ‘slings and arrows’ of crises faced by any material system. My diagram purports to show the piecemeal conceptual building of this concept in our culture. </span></div><div><span style="line-height:1.5">STAN</span></div><div><span style="line-height:1.5">(this is my second for the week, so I will answer further questions, if any, next week)</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Karl Javorszky <<a href="mailto:karl.javorszky@gmail.com">karl.javorszky@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="DE-AT">Dear Stan
and List,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="DE-AT"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">This approach with tabulating the perceived family tree of
thoughts on Nature and us in her is a potent tool to steer the discussion.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Could you please summarise in a few words, that what you
call your own approach and assign it a place on the tree you have drawn? It is
surprising for me that you have included semantic thinkers and no grammatical
thinkers. Please allow me to offer you my version of the relations among
concepts of thinking about Nature:<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<table class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td colspan="9" style="width:453.1pt;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="604" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Is there
Order in the world<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">no: Anarchists, Nihilists<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="8" style="width:380.35pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="507" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">yes<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Can we
recognise it?<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="6" style="width:212.2pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="283" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">no:: Mystics, Sceptics<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:168.15pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="224" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">yes<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="6" style="width:212.2pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="283" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:168.15pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="224" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">By
assuming working principles at work<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext"><span> </span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">inside<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="6" style="width:212.2pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="283" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">outside<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:168.15pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="224" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">both/neither
outside & inside<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:43.95pt">
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt;height:43.95pt" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">Superman, Priest, Saint, Übermensch<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="5" rowspan="2" style="width:143.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;height:43.95pt" width="192" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 5.4pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">God
people<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 5.4pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">mono vs
multi<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:68.45pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;height:43.95pt" width="91" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 5.4pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">Animalists<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:89.4pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;height:43.95pt" width="119" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Encyclopaedists,
Observationists<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:78.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;height:43.95pt" width="105" valign="top">
<table class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:113.3pt;border:medium none;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="151" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Fatalists,
Determinists<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext"><span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:157.85pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="210" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Laws of
Nature<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Rational
thinking<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:78.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="105" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span> </span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">mono<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="5" style="width:143.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="192" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">multi<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="3" rowspan="2" style="width:236.6pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="315" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext"><span> </span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:32.6pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="43" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">one chief<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:39.1pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="52" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">many chiefs<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:72.05pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="96" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">depends on situation<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext"><span> </span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:32.6pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="43" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:39.1pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(127,127,127);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat" width="52" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="5" style="width:308.65pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="412" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Coherent
explanatory vision of the world <span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Can be expressed
and shared by<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:72.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="97" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext" lang="FR">Tongues, song,
dance, unidirectional art<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:70.9pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="95" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">Cathartic experiences, collaborative
art<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:71.4pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="95" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">Myths, tales, confessiones, parables<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="width:69.9pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="93" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Relating
concepts to other concepts, treatises<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:89.4pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="119" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:windowtext">Predictions of the future,
determinations, pointing out specific facts based on relations among concepts<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:78.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt" width="105" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">As a
general principle of relations among concepts<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:27.35pt">
<td colspan="8" style="width:374.35pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext;border-style:none solid solid;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt;height:27.35pt" width="499" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Where
are you?<span></span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:78.75pt;border-color:currentcolor windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:none solid solid none;border-width:medium 1pt 1pt medium;padding:0cm 5.4pt;height:27.35pt" width="105" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">Here am I<span></span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height="0">
<td style="border:medium none" width="97"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="44"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="48"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="1"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="94"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="2"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="83"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="113"><br></td>
<td style="border:medium none" width="105"><br></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am So., 16. Juni 2019 um 16:39 Uhr schrieb Stanley N Salthe <<a href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu" target="_blank">ssalthe@binghamton.edu</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">It is interesting to see the far-back reaches into religion that some of us think of as 'natural philosophy'. For myself as an ex-scientist (in several fields seriatim).<div>the natural philosophy that I derive my own approach upon (ref: Philosophies 2018 3,12, doi:10.3390/philosophies3030023) is shown in this chart.</div><div>STAN</div><div> </div><div><img src="cid:ii_jwz20m0f0" alt="image.png" width="469" height="460"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 7:56 AM Pedro C. Marijuan <<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>(It should have appeared on Friday... again a blocked list??)<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-forward-container"><br>
-------- Mensaje reenviado --------
<table class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Asunto:
</th>
<td>Re: [Fis] New Perspectives. Reply to Bruno's Reply to
Stan</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Fecha: </th>
<td>Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:06:45 +0200</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">De: </th>
<td>Pedro C. Marijuan <a class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Para: </th>
<td><a class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">Dear All,</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">It is quite nice listening to all
these exchanges after the "diet" of past months. I have a few
lateral comments to make:</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">1. Natural philosophy is not
religiously laden but it is quite "modern". It was used along
the scientific revolution, mostly around Newton's time, to
separate from scholastic philosophy (Wooton, 2015). Actually it
becomes the intellectual expression of the fundamental
revolution that had been taking place around the printing press
and the accelerated circulation of ideas in the Western World.
The term science was non-existing at that time and only the
trivium-quadrivium ancient framework was at hand... so, natural
philosophy (as Lars-Goran points) was a growing consensus along
a new view of the world and of knowledge, irrespective that one
could ad of subtract his/her religious personal background. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">2. About religious legacies, we
cannot complain so much. Priesthood was a way of living, much
like civil servants today, or "tenure" in the university system.
By the way, Western universities are a religious legacy
themselves. They were the transplantation to the urban milieu of
the highly successful formula of the monastic system. During
long centuries, after the disintegration of the Roman Empire, it
was the widespread diffusion of monastic institutions what kept
afloat the knowledge system in a chaotic world. Technologies
were tremendously developed there, together with the "mechanical
arts" (term of monastic origins). It represented the social
elevation of the previously practical skills reserved to
servants.</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">3. OK, coming back to our exchanges,
it is very exciting the philosophical discussion per se, but if
it is not related to the scientific & technological changes
of today (see comments from Gordana) it will be of scarce help
in the "daunting task" (Joseph) we have at hand. I will insist,
notwithstanding the healthy skepticism of my FIS colleagues,
that we have BIG PIECES of new biomolecular knowledge (a genuine
bioinfo revolution still taking place) waiting to be translated
into general conceptualizations of multidisciplinary and
philosophical fields. And I will keep trying it...<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">By the way, Bruno has made very
intriguing points that I think dovetail with my comments on laws
of nature many weeks ago. Often we really speak different
tongues, and mutual comprehension becomes blurred. But that's
part of the intrigue and charm of our unending exchanges. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">And this my second cent for this
week. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">Best--Pedro<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-cite-prefix">El 14/06/2019 a las 11:06, Loet
Leydesdorff escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Dear Lars-Goran and colleagues, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<blockquote cite="http://44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se" type="cite" class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410cite2">Since I consider myself as a
natural philosopher, or in modern terms, philosopher of
science, I want to protest against the last statement Loet
made, viz., that natural philosophy is based on ’data’ and
that data is to be identified what that what is given to us
from nature. </blockquote>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">I
did not say so; but I pointed to the basis of natural
philosophy in a religion (Christianity, Protestantism) in
which one assumes that nature is given to us as "data" in a
Revelation. The data is not given by nature, but in Nature.
We can read the book of Nature (Galilei).</div>
<br>
<blockquote cite="http://44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se" type="cite" class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410cite2">The basis from our thinking about
nature is observation sentences which people agree upon, no
matter what cultural, scientific or religious beliefs they
have. </blockquote>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">This
seems pre-Popper to me. </div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The empirical basis of
objective science has thus nothing 'absolute'</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">about it.' Science does not
rest upon solid bedrock. The bold structure</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">of its theories rises, as
it were, above a swamp. It is like a building</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">erected on piles. The piles
are driven down from above into the</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">swamp, but not down to any
natural or 'given' base; and if we stop</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">driving the piles deeper,
it is not because we have reached firm</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">ground. We simply stop when
we are satisfied that the piles are firm</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x2a7a42cbfbf94b7">
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">enough to carry the
structure, at least for the time being.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#1b1b1b"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">
<div><font color="#1b1b1b"><span><br>
</span></font></div>
The Logic of Scientific Discovery, [1935] , 1959, p. 111.<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:11pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#1b1b1b"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Most of us, including myself,
consider themselves as even more constructivist than Popper
after having read Kuhn.</span></font>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote cite="http://44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se" type="cite" class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410cite2"><br>
<div>Furthermore I accept the basic tenet of
Kant’s epistemology, viz., that object in the natural
world are our constructions; they result from our
judgements (in modern terms, agreed observation
sentences). Many people think that this view leads to an
unacceptable subjectivism, but it does not, since the
basis consists of sentences which we jointly assent too.
So nothing is given to us.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>In my opinion, this is a
religious issue. Some of us may beleive that the world is
given in a revelation. Thus, the reason "why nothing is
given to us" may be different between us. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Loet</div>
<br>
<blockquote cite="http://44E9AC2E-4493-45E3-819A-140496628759@filosofi.uu.se" type="cite" class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410cite2">
<div>Lars-Göran <br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>14 juni 2019 kl. 06:56 skrev Loet
Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>>:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> Dear
colleagues, </div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> We should
keep in mind, in my opinion, that "natural
philosophy" was embedded in a religious culture.
From this perspective, the world is "given" to
us in a Revelation by God.</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> In the
antique world, the sacred was hidden and only
accessible via the priests. </div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> Natural
philosophy is based on the conclusion that we
can directly access nature as "data", that is,
givens. Alternatively, one can consider the
world as "facta"'; that is, we have only access
to nature via models.</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> Best, </div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> Loet</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410signature_old" style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x0a348c35f49b41f">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x78c9f4c0540648e7b564d127ae9a7d74" style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:12pt">
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410signature_old">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x068ffe68e305459">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410xd031ae4a00354d21ab008b16080cd048">
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410signature_old">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x4f407acb80d4411">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x775eaf3ae7f6460082dcdda3faf877c6" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:11pt;margin-left:0px;margin-right:8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410signature_old">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x920d19d74fc84b0">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:center" align="center"> <span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">
<hr width="100%" size="3" align="center"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Loet
Leydesdorff<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Professor
emeritus, University
of Amsterdam<br>
Amsterdam School of
Communication
Research (ASCoR)<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">loet@leydesdorff.net<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">;<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9pt">Associate
Faculty,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">SPRU,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">University
of Sussex;<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:9pt">Guest
Professor<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">,
Hangzhou; Visiting
Professor,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">ISTIC,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">Beijing;<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:9pt">Visiting
Fellow,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">,
University of
London;<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><span style="font-size:9pt"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</a></span></span></div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x6d48cd6784e049409ff4972e00ee71a6">
<div>
<div><font style="font-size:9pt" face="Calibri">ORCID:<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098</a>;</font><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"> </font></div>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410signature_old" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x4f407acb80d4411">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x775eaf3ae7f6460082dcdda3faf877c6" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:11pt;margin-left:0px;margin-right:8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410signature_old">
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x920d19d74fc84b0"> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> ------
Original Message ------</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> From:
"Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic" <<a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se" target="_blank">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se</a>></div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> To:
"Bruno Marchal" <<a href="mailto:marchal@ulb.ac.be" target="_blank">marchal@ulb.ac.be</a>>;
"fis" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> Sent:
6/14/2019 6:45:17 AM</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> Subject:
[Fis] New Perspectives. Reply to Bruno's Reply
to Stan</div>
<div style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"> <br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410x26fc024ebc1f462" style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<blockquote type="cite" class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410cite2" style="margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px">
<div class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410WordSection1">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Dear Bruno,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">I have a few questions to
your answers and would be happy if you
can help me to understand.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Here they come, following
formulations from your mail.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span lang="EN-US">“This seems to
assume some primary natural reality,
isn’t it?”<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Q: What is meant
by “primary natural reality”?<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">1. If it refers to the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>EXISTENCE</b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span>OF
THE EXTERNAL/INTERNAL NATURAL WORLD, I
think this is the most reasonable
hypothesis to start with:<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">The world/nature
EXISTS.<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">It is the fundamental
assumption of all sciences which are our
best present knowledge about the world.<b><u></u><u></u></b></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Otherwise, if the world
does not EXIST, we can conclude any
discussion about it.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">2. The other question is<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>HOW</b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span>that
EXISTENCE of the world outside/inside
cognitive agents presents itself or
unfolds in an agent in the interaction
with the world.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">That is the question of
UMWELT, and the construction of
knowledge through information
processing. (Natural information
processing = natural computation.)<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">The “primary natural
reality” reflects itself in a myriad of
local “realities” in cognizing agents.
As we know from empirical observations,
even though existence of the world
induces various information processes in
various agents, communities of agents
are typically sharing common “languages”
about that “primary natural reality”.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">That is true for bacterial
as well as for human communities.
Languages reflect our ability to
collectively navigate “primary natural
reality” and share common references. So
much so that we are able to commonly
build a new semantic layer, that is
human culture, upon that “primary
natural reality”.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span lang="EN-US">“As I have
shown, this requires a non
computationalist theory of mind, which
seems to me to be highly speculative.”<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Q:</span></b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Why would that follow from
the EXISTENCE of the world?</b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>What kind of phenomenon is
that “computation” which minds
perform?<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Is
it the Turing model of discrete
sequential symbol manipulation –
calculation of mathematical function? It
may at best describe linguistic part of
the mind. But mind as a natural process
is both data-based (even continuous
data) and symbol based. Not Turing
computable in it entirety, but
“naturally computable” i.e. the result
of natural information processing
performed by living embodied minds.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span lang="EN-US">“I am not sure
we can avoid the mind-body problem in
a philosophy of information context</span></b><span lang="EN-US">.”<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Q: Why? Natural
information processes in living
organisms seem to me as the best way
to bridge the mind-body chasm</span></b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">. Mind is a result of a
complex network of networks of
information processes going on in a
cognizing agent. That process is
implemented in their bodies as a
material substrate that is
self-organized structure growth from
that<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>“primary natural reality”</b>.
There is no contradiction between the
morphology (shape, structure, material)
of an organism and its functions
(processes performed by that morphology.
At least those organisms who have
nervous systems capable of representing
their bodies and their relationships to
their environments can be seen as
possessing intrinsic “self-models” or
simply having “self” or “mind”. That
“mind” is the result of the
relationships of its subsystems that
constitute that “self”, that process
which for an organism makes a
distinction between the “self” vs. the
world and the relationships between the
two.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Mind is a process, matter
is its substrate on which the process is
going on. Those are inseparable in a
living organism. In-formation has it
roots in the concept of formation (of a
material substrate). Matter and form are
two aspects of the same reality. It is
not a problem, it is a way how we
conceptualize the world, in order to
manage its complexity.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span lang="EN-US">“There are no
evidences for physicalism or for a
physical primary reality, nor are
there evidences for a non
computationalist theory of mind.”<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Q: What is meant
with “physicalism” here?<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Wikipedia offers two
different definitions,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism</a><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span>according
to which<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Physicalism</span></b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"> is the </span><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical" title="Metaphysical" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">metaphysical</span></a></span><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"> thesis assuming that<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">a)<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>"everything is physical"</b>,
that there is "nothing over and above"
the physical,</span><sup><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism#cite_note-1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">[1]</span></a></span></sup><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"> or<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">b) that<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>everything </b></span><b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervenience" title="Supervenience" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">supervenes</span></a></span></b><b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"> on the
physical</span></b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">.</span><sup><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism#cite_note-DStoljar-2" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">[2]</a></span></sup><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)"> <u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Those are two very
different proposals. The first one is
obviously false, as it negates all the
emergent levels of organization of the
world above physics.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">The second one depends on
what is meant by “<b>supervenience”</b>.
If it means that<b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>higher
levels of organization of matter-energy
emerge from the lower ones bringing
completely new properties, it is in
perfect agreement with what sciences
today say about the world and how they
model the world.*<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Molecules are made of atoms
but bring completely new possibilities
of structures, processes and
interactions. Biology is more than
chemistry for the same reason.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Q: What would be
“a physical primary reality”?<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Am I wrong if I imagine
that I cannot go out of this room
through its walls? Does not that mean
that there is “a physical primary
reality” that stops me from doing so, no
matter how much I wish and try?<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span lang="EN-US">“Of course some
people confuse the evidences for
physical laws with evidences that such
laws are primary, but that is just
because they “believe” in some natural
world to begin with.”<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Q: What is
primary?</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US"><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Indeed, physical laws are
not<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>primary</b>, in the sense of
eternal and unchangeable, as they evolve
with the universe*. Primary is the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>EXISTENCE</b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span>of
the world that we all share and
experience. It presents itself in both
fluid, intrinsic ways (subjective
feelings and emotions) and crisp, well
defined inter-subjective forms (as in
sciences, logics, mathematics).</span><b><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span lang="EN-US">“We can’t have
both Mechanism in cognitive science,
and materialism, or just physicalism,
in the “natural science”. That has
been shown logically inconsistent.”<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">It depends on the choice of
“mechanism”, “cognitive science”
(classical-computationalist disembodied
or contemporary EEEE models of
cognition), along with the kind of
“physicalism” assumed, and even the
choice of “natural sciences” to support
your thesis. In the paper below (*) I
argue, for a given choice of all those
terms and with heavy reliance on the
contemporary scientific knowledge, that
computational mind is not only
(naturally) compatible but essentially
dependent on its physical substrate on
succession of levels of organization.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Q: If we have
such model<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">in which “mechanisms” of
information processing (natural
computation in the framework of
computing nature) from the lowest levels
of exchanges between elementary
particles to the highest levels of
exchanges among people of symbolic
structures and artifacts, wouldn’t that
constitute a counter-example to the
claim that mind and body have nothing to
do with each other ? (**)<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">All the best,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">Gordana<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">*<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.gordana.se/work/PUBLICATIONS-files/2019-Laws%20of%20Science%20as%20Laws%20of%20Nature.pdf" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)">http://www.gordana.se/work/PUBLICATIONS-files/2019-Laws%20of%20Science%20as%20Laws%20of%20Nature.pdf</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="color:rgb(4,50,255)" lang="EN-US">** No model or framework
can explain everything about the world
(including humans) at the same time, but
info-computational approach can be used
to model some interesting aspects of the
mind emergent from, in interaction with
its matter/energy substrate.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="font-size:12pt">From:<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size:12pt">Fis
<<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>>
on behalf of Bruno Marchal <<a href="mailto:marchal@ulb.ac.be" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">marchal@ulb.ac.be</a>><br>
<b>Date:<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Thursday,
13 June 2019 at 15:11<br>
<b>To:<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>fis
<<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject:<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re:
[Fis] New Perspectives. Reply to Stan<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Joseph,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> On 12 Jun 2019, at
16:40, Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB">Stan,</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB">Thank
you for your question. I reply
with a modified excerpt from
an article in<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Philosophies.<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></i>The full article is Open
Access. I am indebted to
Rafael Capurro for part of
this formulation. Comments
welcome.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB">Best
wishes,</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB">Joseph</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify"> <span lang="EN-GB">Natural Philosophy:
Excerpt from Brenner, J. 2018.
The Naturalization of Natural
Philosophy.<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"><i> </i></span><i>Philosophies<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><b>2018<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i>3,
41.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"> <span lang="EN-GB">Natural Philosophy
deals with the question of
nature as a whole stated by
beings (ourselves) that find
themselves in nature without
having the possibility of a
holistic view, being ourselves
in nature and not beyond it. The
fact that we are able to ask
this question means that we have
some kind of pre-knowledge about
nature as a whole while at the
same time this pre-knowledge is
problematic, otherwise we would
not ask the question and would
not be able to become natural
philosophers.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"> <span lang="EN-GB">The question then
changes to the difference
between nature and reality as a
whole, including fictions,
non-verifiable beliefs and
intangible objects of thought.
Since the idea that classical
Natural Philosophy evolved into
science seems correct, we
are left, for the domain
of Natural Philosophy, with
only a speculative
interpretation of nature viewed
in its entirety. This
interpretation is,<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><i>ipso facto</i>, at a
lower ontological level than the
science which has largely
replaced it. Much of the 20th
Century linguistic turn,
expressed in both analytical and
phenomenological and residual
transcendental traditions, is
well visible in contemporary
philosophy.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"> <span lang="EN-GB">The reaction to
this unsatisfactory state of
affairs has been the
reinstatement of realisms and
materialisms of various kinds,
associated today with the names
of Derrida, Badiou, Zizek, and
others. The ‘ontological turn’
in philosophy is a term of art
that designates dissatisfaction
with descriptions of reality
based on analytical, semantic
criteria of truth. Starting with
Heidegger’s critique of
hermeneutics and the basing of
philosophy on human life, the
ontological turn is a challenge
to neo-Kantian epistemologies,
and looks to what the structure
of the world might be like to
enable scientific, that is,
non-absolute knowledge.
Unfortunately, ontological
theories have been hobbled by
the retention of static terms
whose characteristics are
determined by bivalent logic. In
2002, Priest suggested that such
an ontological turn in
philosophy was taking place,
away from language in the
direction of an contradictorial
view of reality. Priest proposed
paraconsistent logic as
appropriate to this turn, but
his system suffers from the
epistemological limitations of
paraconsistency. Lupasco, on the
other hand, anticipated the
ontological turn by some 60
years. (In the complete article,
I show that his logical system
can be used to differentiate
between Natural Philosophy and
Philosophy<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><i>tout court.</i>)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"> <span lang="EN-GB">The most important
point for me is that Natural
Philosophy tells us something
real about the world that is
consistent with our best
science, physical, biological
and cognitive. Speculative
philosophy can always
re-illuminate ‘eternal’
questions such as what it means
to be a thinking being in a
non-thinking environment. This
non-Natural Philosophy, to
repeat, exists for ‘natural’
reasons: it is a natural
necessity for human beings to
create it, by a natural process,
but it is not part of nature<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><i>qua</i><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span>content.<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> This
seems to assume some primary natural
reality, isn’t it?<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> As I
have shown, this requires a non
computationalist theory of mind,
which seems to me to be highly
speculative.<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> I am
not sure we can avoid the mind-body
problem in a philosophy of
information context. <u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
There are no evidences for
physicalism or for a physical
primary reality, nor are there
evidences for a non computationalist
theory of mind. Of course some
people confuse the evidences for
physical laws with evidences that
such laws are primary, but that is
just because they “believes” in some
natural world to begin with. I think
it is better to be agnostic and see
where the facts (experimental) and
working theories lead us.<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> We
can’t have both Mechanism in
cognitive science, and materialism,
or just physicalism, in the “natural
science”. That has been shown
logically inconsistent (ask for
reference if interested).<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Bruno<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:center" align="center"> <span lang="EN-US">
<hr width="100%" size="0" align="center"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Fis [<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stanley
N Salthe<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span>mardi,
11 juin 2019 21:09<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span>fis<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Fis] New Perspectives</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span> <u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span>Joseph -- Would you
like to write how you define
Natural Philosophy?<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span> <u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span>STAN<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span> <u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span>On Tue, Jun 11,
2019 at 12:03 PM<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span>Joseph
Brenner<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Dear
Pedro and All,</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Many
thanks are due to you,
Pedro, for this new and
valuable formulation of
the – daunting - task at
hand. The task is
logical and
philosophical, as well
as scientific.
Philosophy here,
exemplified by the
Philosophy of
Information, does not
mean standard
discussions of ‘where
did we come from’ and
‘does a transcendent
deity exist’, which are
as sterile in their way
as the excesses of the
IT and AI ideologists.
Natural Philosophy can
be a ‘vehicle’ for
interaction between
people of good will, the
collaboration that you
point to that may help
to advance IS4SI. Some
of you who may not have
been at the Conference
in San Francisco
(Berkeley) may wish to
look at abstracts of
papers from the
Philosophy of
Information
sub-conferences at the
2015, 2017 and 2019
Summit conferences on
Information.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">To
revitalize the list is
indeed a key first step.
But it starts, in my
opinion, with some
self-examination,
examination of whether
one’s own theories are
just ‘pet’ theories.
Applying this criterion
to my own Logic in
Reality, about which I
have written on several
occasions, I claim that
it is not just a pet
theory. It is a new
perspective on how
information, logic and
thought operate as real
processes, following
laws within the laws of
physics, without loss of
a human, ethical
dimension. However, LIR
makes many demands on
one. It requires an
understanding and
acceptance of what is /<i>not</i>/
Natural Philosophy,
which may include some
of the ideas that have
appeared in this list.
</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Again,
accepting my own
criterion of interactive
non-separability, I do
not call for any
exclusions or
limitations on the list.
I only wish that
everyone makes the
necessary effort to
position his or her own
views in relation to the
overriding need for
furthering the Common
Good. The sum of all
such honest
self-referential (or
second-order recursive)
opinions of people about
their own work would
itself be a useful
creative effort, I
think.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Thank
you and best wishes,</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Joseph<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]
On Behalf Of Pedro C.
Marijuan<br>
Sent: mardi, 11 juin
2019 13:05<br>
To: 'fis'<br>
Subject: [Fis] New
Perspectives</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Dear FIS
Colleagues,</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">A few days
ago took place the IS4SI
Meeting, in SFco, with
one of the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">parallel
sessions devoted to FIS
and other sessions also
with presence<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">of veteran
parties of this list.
Relevant speakers in the
plenary<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">sessions
covered the main topic
of the conference,
expressed as: Where<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">is the I in
Artificial Intelligence
and the Meaning in
Information? From<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Tristan
Harris to Melanie
Mitchell, to Paul
Verschure, etc.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">In my view
the perspectives in
these IT fields are
changing<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">significantly.
The tremendous hype in
AI, Deep Learning, IOT,
etc. keeps<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">unabated,
but critical voices are
being heard, not just
from a few<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Academia
corners as usual, but
now by leading
technologists and<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">researchers
of big companies in
these very fields.
"Dissent" on the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">contents,
methodologies, and
consequences of social
applications is growing.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">The
industrial development
of this IT sector
--notwithstanding the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">inflated
proclamations and all
the hype of the gurus--
does not mean the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">arrival of
some great singularity,
or the symbiosis with
machines, or<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">widespread
menace of robots &
cyborgs... these are
slogans coming from<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">the
industrialists to
maintain
social/ideological
preeminence for their<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">whole
sector. Rather I think
they are starting to
feel the consequences<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">of their
social overstretching in
different ways.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">The
fundamental point, in my
opinion, is that our
solitary, isolated<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">efforts
from a few Academia
places (Sciences &
Humanities) in the quest<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">for new
perspectives in
Information Science, and
not just AI<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">development,
should not isolated any
more. We can now
establish an<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">interesting
dialog and partnership
with those new
"dissenters" of the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">technology
in its concepts,
methods, and social
applications. It is upon<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">us to
improve the discussion
procedures, the
collaborations, the<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">organization,
etc. so that this
opportunity might
materialize<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">progressively.
Do not ask me how... In
any case I pointed out
three<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">future
directions for IS4SI
advancement: community
building, attracting<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">scientific/technological
avantgarde, and
organizational
improvement.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Revitalizing
this discussion
list--shouldn't it be
one of the first steps?</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Best
greetings to all,</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">--Pedro</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">-------------------------------------------------</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Pedro C.
Marijuán</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Grupo de
Bioinformación /
Bioinformation Group</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fpedrocmarijuan%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786234083&sdata=rRk9RxUKvWoq1nnH7eSkg5gRTil1tVUTgTK0pDa5Ihg%3D&reserved=0" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">-------------------------------------------------</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">---</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">El software
de antivirus Avast ha
analizado este correo
electrónico en busca de
virus.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirus&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786234083&sdata=Wbrn7sp1W%2Fg4GOIdAmb0U1geydhcdm%2FOX6Hu5N7Lc3k%3D&reserved=0" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US">Fis mailing
list</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786244082&sdata=%2BSp0SCZdqFLqq%2FPes13pr84YSlKm03qEikuJ5vzJ2CQ%3D&reserved=0" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410gmail-m_8386423096837602299DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span> <u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
<table class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410MsoNormalTable" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(211,212,222)" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:27.5pt;border:medium none;padding:9pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="37">
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786244082&sdata=E3huy%2FK%2BF2q8BQYe%2FpMNb5mXlwom5sE3WuctW2DVN2M%3D&reserved=0" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12pt;text-decoration:none"><img id="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410_x0000_i1025" alt="Image removed by sender." style="border: 0px none; border-image-source: initial; border-image-slice: initial; border-image-width: initial; border-image-outset: initial; border-image-repeat: initial; width: 0.4791in; height: 0.302in;" width="46" height="29" border="0"></span></a></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</td>
<td style="width:235pt;border:medium none;padding:8.5pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="313">
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:9pt">
<span style="font-size:6.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(65,66,78)">Garanti
sans virus.<span class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786254081&sdata=TeOIk53ReL3Aw0mMz3wLptFb2cmnkwV7enRUKCWARyo%3D&reserved=0" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(68,83,234)">www.avast.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <span>_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786254081&sdata=NgDErO3w5%2B7%2FDm3G3dobqSaXFjrR6EAlvN32HliQgpM%3D&reserved=0" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7Cgordana.dodig-crnkovic%40mdh.se%7Ce3cf40966de148aaf4b108d6f0009e4b%7Ca1795b64dabd4758b988b309292316cf%7C0%7C0%7C636960282786264068&sdata=%2F3c%2BLJrQ9VLXSWXyuWjGNwdxCc2QSslqv%2BIyz%2F1ooX8%3D&reserved=0" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u> <u></u></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Fis
mailing list</span><br style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="font-family:'Segoe UI';font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>Lars-Göran Johansson<br>
Professor i teoretisk filosofi, emeritus<br>
Uppsala Universitet<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
När du har kontakt med oss på Uppsala universitet med
e-post så innebär det att vi behandlar dina
personuppgifter. För att läsa mer om hur vi gör det kan du
läsa här: <a href="http://www.uu.se/om-uu/dataskydd-personuppgifter/" target="_blank">http://www.uu.se/om-uu/dataskydd-personuppgifter/</a>
<br>
<br>
E-mailing Uppsala University means that we will process
your personal data. For more information on how this is
performed, please read here: <a href="http://www.uu.se/en/about-uu/data-protection-policy" target="_blank">http://www.uu.se/en/about-uu/data-protection-policy</a>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
<a class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="gmail-m_-8011145175604522652gmail-m_-8788172960531217712gmail-m_-870713376848634410moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>