<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="DE-AT">Dear
Friends,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="DE-AT"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Our central theme is information. Whether it is to be
recognised among the pictures that we make about Nature (in the objective,
outside world) or among the pictures that we make about ourselves, all these
pictures are localised in the brain which is at the end of our neck. There is
no escaping the fact that the mechanism which generates our ideas is a biologic
one. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Biologic concepts of order are vastly different to concepts
of order in the technical sciences. Among the tasks FIS has, is consolidation
of the differing systems of thought. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The black hole of neurology/psychology mentioned by Stan is
in fact the only, and therefore the unavoidable path we can take. The pictures
we make and the words we use are contents of the brain and are subject to
storing, filing, indexing, retrieving, connecting and disconnecting procedures.
There is no way avoiding the subject of storing and retrieval, because that is
what we call information management. It is not the problem that the brain does
it, it is the problem that we have difficulties in visualising HOW the brain
does it. Actually, it does it by utilising the inherent communalities and
differences in the actual meaning of the term ‘sequenced’ as opposed to ‘contemporary’.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The discussion may run presently around, in which screen realisation
we see the movie plot of information management, we should however better shift
the subject to the plot: and that is, how the brain manages information: by
storing and retrieval. Once we understand the principle of embalming and resurrection
of a content, we can build such machines that do the trick. The information
management of the brain is that eye, which, Wittgenstein said, cannot see
itself. We can however deduct the working principle of information management, each
one individual among us (having found inner places in inner landscapes) for themselves
alone, but speak about it can we only in that case in a comprehensive fashion,
if we use words that are commonly understood. The principle is easy to transmit
and to comprehend. What is needed, is a readiness to accept the idea that a new
explanation makes the mechanism of the inner coherence understandable. Whether
one observes principles of inner coherence expressing themselves as a priori
rules of external reality, or as subtle inner mood changes influencing taste in
preferences and views, is of secondary relevance. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Joseph’s approach has always impressed me as very well-reasoned.
Lacking knowledge of literature, I cannot take part in that discussion. That
there are a priori existing rules in Nature is self-evident, irrespective of
the way we speak about them.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thank you for the interesting discussion. I hope you are not
too much bored by the interjections: Listen, it is accounting that is
important! Accounting! Pay more attention to Accounting! - during a nice office
party while people talking shop.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yours:<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Karl<span></span></p>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Do., 13. Juni 2019 um 16:37 Uhr schrieb Stanley N Salthe <<a href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu">ssalthe@binghamton.edu</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Joseph, replying on Natural Philosophy<div><br></div><div>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-p1"><span style="line-height:1.5">JB: Natural Philosophy deals with the question of nature as a whole stated by beings (ourselves) that find themselves in nature without having the possibility of a holistic view, being ourselves in nature and not beyond it. S: SO, YOU INCLUDE HUMANS AS PART OF THE NATURE TO BE STUDIED. The fact that we are able to ask this question means that we have some kind of pre-knowledge about nature as a whole S: THIS WOULD HAVE BERN DERIVED FROM OUR CULTURE while at the same time this pre-knowledge is problematic, otherwise we would not ask the question and would not be able to become natural philosophers. S: WHETHER PROBLEMATIC OR NOT, OR IN WHICH WAY, WOULD DEPEND UPON OUR CULTURE</span><br></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-p2"><span class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-s1">The question then changes to the difference between nature and reality as a whole, including fictions, non-verifiable beliefs and intangible objects of thought. S: SO THIS FURTHER BRINGS IN PARTICULARITIES OF THE CULTURE OF THE NATURAL PHILOSOPHER. IN SOME CASES THAT CULTURE MAY NOT DIFFERENTIATE REALITY FROM NATURE Since the idea that classical Natural Philosophy evolved into science seems correct, we are left, for the domain of Natural Philosophy, with only a speculative interpretation of nature viewed in its entirety. S: OK This interpretation is, <i>ipso facto</i>, at a lower ontological level than the science which has largely replaced it. S: IN WHAT SENSE LOWER? Much of the 20th Century linguistic turn, expressed in both analytical and phenomenological and residual transcendental traditions, is well visible in contemporary philosophy.S: I SUPPOSE THIS MEANS THAT ‘IN THE END WILL BE THE WORD!. </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-p2"><span class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-s1">IN MY OWN VIEW, I DO NOT EXPLICITLY INCLUDE CONSIDERATIONS OF HUMAN NATURE, WHICH I HOLD TO BE IMPLICIT IN THE PHILOSOPHY OF NATURE BASED ON SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS (ANTS OR BIRDS WOULD CREATE - IF THEY COULD - A DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF NATURE.</span></p><p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-p2"><span class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-s1">BRUNO -- REGARDING </span><span style="line-height:1.5">We can’t have both Mechanism in cognitive science, and materialism, or just physicalism, in the “natural science”. THIS DOES IMPACT MY CHOICE NOT TO EXPLICITLY INCLUDE THE HUMAN CONSTRUCTION OF NATURE IN MY VIEW OF NATURAL PHILOSOPHY BASED ON THE SCIENTIFIC ENTERPRISE SINCE THAT COULD END UP IN A BLACK HOLE OF NEUROLOGY/PSYCHOLOGY.</span></p><p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-p2"><span style="line-height:1.5">STAN </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-p3"><span style="line-height:1.5">STAN</span><br><span class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-s1"></span></p></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:40 AM Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div lang="FR">
<div class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Stan,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Thank you for your question. I reply with a modified excerpt from
an article in <i><span style="font-style:italic">Philosophies. </span></i>The full
article is Open Access. I am indebted to Rafael Capurro for part of this
formulation. Comments welcome.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Best wishes,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Joseph<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">Natural
Philosophy: Excerpt from Brenner, J. 2018. The Naturalization of Natural
Philosophy.<i><span style="font-style:italic"> Philosophies <b><span style="font-weight:bold">2018 </span></b></span></i>3, 41.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">Natural
Philosophy deals with the question of nature as a whole stated by beings
(ourselves) that find themselves in nature without having the possibility of a
holistic view, being ourselves in nature and not beyond it. The fact that we
are able to ask this question means that we have some kind of pre-knowledge
about nature as a whole while at the same time this pre-knowledge is problematic,
otherwise we would not ask the question and would not be able to become natural
philosophers.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">The question
then changes to the difference between nature and reality as a whole, including
fictions, non-verifiable beliefs and intangible objects of thought. Since the
idea that classical Natural Philosophy evolved into science seems correct,
we are left, for the domain of Natural Philosophy, with only a
speculative interpretation of nature viewed in its entirety. This
interpretation is, <i><span style="font-style:italic">ipso facto</span></i>, at
a lower ontological level than the science which has largely replaced it. Much
of the 20th Century linguistic turn, expressed in both analytical and
phenomenological and residual transcendental traditions, is well visible in
contemporary philosophy.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">The reaction
to this unsatisfactory state of affairs has been the reinstatement of realisms
and materialisms of various kinds, associated today with the names of Derrida,
Badiou, Zizek, and others. The ‘ontological turn’ in philosophy is
a term of art that designates dissatisfaction with descriptions of reality
based on analytical, semantic criteria of truth. Starting with
Heidegger’s critique of hermeneutics and the basing of philosophy on
human life, the ontological turn is a challenge to neo-Kantian epistemologies,
and looks to what the structure of the world might be like to enable
scientific, that is, non-absolute knowledge. Unfortunately, ontological
theories have been hobbled by the retention of static terms whose
characteristics are determined by bivalent logic. In 2002, Priest suggested
that such an ontological turn in philosophy was taking place, away from
language in the direction of an contradictorial view of reality. Priest
proposed paraconsistent logic as appropriate to this turn, but his system suffers
from the epistemological limitations of paraconsistency. Lupasco, on the other
hand, anticipated the ontological turn by some 60 years. (In the complete
article, I show that his logical system can be used to differentiate between
Natural Philosophy and Philosophy <i><span style="font-style:italic">tout
court.</span></i>)<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">The most
important point for me is that Natural Philosophy tells us something real about
the world that is consistent with our best science, physical, biological and
cognitive. Speculative philosophy can always re-illuminate
‘eternal’ questions such as what it means to be a thinking being in
a non-thinking environment. This non-Natural Philosophy, to repeat, exists for
‘natural’ reasons: it is a natural necessity for human beings to
create it, by a natural process, but it is not part of nature <i><span style="font-style:italic">qua</span></i> content. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial" color="navy"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">
<hr width="100%" size="3" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold" lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma" lang="EN-US">
Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Stanley N Salthe<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> mardi, 11 juin 2019 21:09<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> fis<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] New
Perspectives</span></font><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">Joseph -- Would you like to write how you define Natural Philosophy?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">STAN<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:03 PM <u></u>Joseph
Brenner<u></u> <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none solid;border-top-width:initial;border-right-width:initial;border-bottom-width:initial;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US">Dear Pedro and All,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US">Many thanks are due to you, Pedro, for this new and
valuable formulation of the – daunting - task at hand. The task is
logical and philosophical, as well as scientific. Philosophy here, exemplified
by the Philosophy of Information, does not mean standard discussions of
‘where did we come from’ and ‘does a transcendent deity
exist’, which are as sterile in their way as the excesses of the IT and
AI ideologists. Natural Philosophy can be a ‘vehicle’ for
interaction between people of good will, the collaboration that you point to
that may help to advance IS4SI. Some of you who may not have been at the
Conference in San Francisco (Berkeley) may wish to look at abstracts of papers
from the Philosophy of Information sub-conferences at the 2015, 2017 and 2019
Summit conferences on Information.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US">To revitalize the list is indeed a key first step. But
it starts, in my opinion, with some self-examination, examination of whether
one’s own theories are just ‘pet’ theories. Applying this
criterion to my own Logic in Reality, about which I have written on several
occasions, I claim that it is not just a pet theory. It is a new perspective on
how information, logic and thought operate as real processes, following laws
within the laws of physics, without loss of a human, ethical dimension.
However, LIR makes many demands on one. It requires an understanding and
acceptance of what is /<i><span style="font-style:italic">not</span></i>/
Natural Philosophy, which may include some of the ideas that have appeared in
this list. </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US">Again, accepting my own criterion of interactive
non-separability, I do not call for any exclusions or limitations on the list.
I only wish that everyone makes the necessary effort to position his or her own
views in relation to the overriding need for furthering the Common Good. The
sum of all such honest self-referential (or second-order recursive) opinions of
people about their own work would itself be a useful creative effort, I think.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US">Thank you and best wishes,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode"" lang="EN-US">Joseph </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]
On Behalf Of Pedro C. Marijuan<br>
Sent: mardi, 11 juin 2019 13:05<br>
To: 'fis'<br>
Subject: [Fis] New Perspectives</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Dear FIS
Colleagues,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">A few days ago
took place the IS4SI Meeting, in SFco, with one of the </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">parallel sessions
devoted to FIS and other sessions also with presence </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">of veteran
parties of this list. Relevant speakers in the plenary </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">sessions covered
the main topic of the conference, expressed as: Where </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">is the I in
Artificial Intelligence and the Meaning in Information? From </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Tristan Harris to
Melanie Mitchell, to Paul Verschure, etc.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">In my view the
perspectives in these IT fields are changing </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">significantly.
The tremendous hype in AI, Deep Learning, IOT, etc. keeps </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">unabated, but
critical voices are being heard, not just from a few </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Academia corners
as usual, but now by leading technologists and </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">researchers of
big companies in these very fields. "Dissent" on the </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">contents, methodologies,
and consequences of social applications is growing.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">The industrial
development of this IT sector --notwithstanding the </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">inflated
proclamations and all the hype of the gurus-- does not mean the </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">arrival of some
great singularity, or the symbiosis with machines, or </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">widespread menace
of robots & cyborgs... these are slogans coming from </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">the
industrialists to maintain social/ideological preeminence for their </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">whole sector.
Rather I think they are starting to feel the consequences </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">of their social
overstretching in different ways.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">The fundamental
point, in my opinion, is that our solitary, isolated </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">efforts from a
few Academia places (Sciences & Humanities) in the quest </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">for new
perspectives in Information Science, and not just AI </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">development, should
not isolated any more. We can now establish an </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">interesting
dialog and partnership with those new "dissenters" of the </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">technology in its
concepts, methods, and social applications. It is upon </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">us to improve the
discussion procedures, the collaborations, the </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">organization,
etc. so that this opportunity might materialize </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">progressively. Do
not ask me how... In any case I pointed out three </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">future directions
for IS4SI advancement: community building, attracting </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">scientific/technological
avantgarde, and organizational improvement.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Revitalizing this
discussion list--shouldn't it be one of the first steps?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Best greetings to
all,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">--Pedro</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">-------------------------------------------------</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Pedro C. Marijuán</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Grupo de
Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">-------------------------------------------------</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">---</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">El software de
antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US">Fis mailing list</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m8386423096837602299msoplaintext"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502gmail-m_8386423096837602299DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<table class="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502MsoNormalTable" style="border-style:solid none none;border-right-width:initial;border-bottom-width:initial;border-left-width:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-left-color:initial;border-top:1pt solid rgb(211,212,222)" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:27.5pt;border:medium none;padding:9pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="46">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img id="gmail-m_7228155765077210480gmail-m_-6540808436749469036gmail-m_-9033294349017756502_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" style="height: 29px; width: 46px;" width="46" height="29" border="0"></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
<td style="width:235pt;border:medium none;padding:8.5pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="392">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:9pt"><font size="1" face="Arial" color="#41424e"><span style="font-size:6.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(65,66,78)">Garanti
sans virus. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><font color="#4453ea"><span style="color:rgb(68,83,234)">www.avast.com</span></font></a>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><a href="#m_7228155765077210480_m_-6540808436749469036_m_-9033294349017756502_m_8386423096837602299_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40B" width="1" height="1"></a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt">_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
</blockquote></div>