<div dir="ltr">Joseph -- Would you like to write how you define Natural Philosophy?<div><br></div><div>STAN</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:03 PM Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'">Dear Pedro and All,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'">Many thanks are due to
you, Pedro, for this new and valuable formulation of the – daunting - task
at hand. The task is logical and philosophical, as well as scientific. Philosophy
here, exemplified by the Philosophy of Information, does not mean standard
discussions of ‘where did we come from’ and ‘does a
transcendent deity exist’, which are as sterile in their way as the excesses
of the IT and AI ideologists. Natural Philosophy can be a ‘vehicle’
for interaction between people of good will, the collaboration that you point
to that may help to advance IS4SI. Some of you who may not have been at the
Conference in San Francisco (Berkeley) may wish to look at abstracts of papers from
the Philosophy of Information sub-conferences at the 2015, 2017 and 2019 Summit
conferences on Information.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'">To revitalize the
list is indeed a key first step. But it starts, in my opinion, with some
self-examination, examination of whether one’s own theories are just ‘pet’
theories. Applying this criterion to my own Logic in Reality, about which I
have written on several occasions, I claim that it is not just a pet theory. It
is a new perspective on how information, logic and thought operate as real
processes, following laws within the laws of physics, without loss of a human,
ethical dimension. However, LIR makes many demands on one. It requires an
understanding and acceptance of what is /<i><span style="font-style:italic">not</span></i>/
Natural Philosophy, which may include some of the ideas that have appeared in
this list. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'">Again, accepting my
own criterion of interactive non-separability, I do not call for any exclusions
or limitations on the list. I only wish that everyone makes the necessary effort
to position his or her own views in relation to the overriding need for
furthering the Common Good. The sum of all such honest self-referential (or
second-order recursive) opinions of people about their own work would itself be
a useful creative effort, I think.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'">Thank you and best
wishes,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode'">Joseph <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>] On Behalf Of Pedro C. Marijuan<br>
Sent: mardi, 11 juin 2019 13:05<br>
To: 'fis'<br>
Subject: [Fis] New Perspectives</span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">Dear FIS Colleagues,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">A few days ago took place the IS4SI Meeting, in SFco,
with one of the <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">parallel sessions devoted to FIS and other sessions
also with presence <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">of veteran parties of this list. Relevant speakers in
the plenary <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">sessions covered the main topic of the conference,
expressed as: Where <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">is the I in Artificial Intelligence and the Meaning in
Information? From <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">Tristan Harris to Melanie Mitchell, to Paul Verschure,
etc.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">In my view the perspectives in these IT fields are
changing <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">significantly. The tremendous hype in AI, Deep
Learning, IOT, etc. keeps <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">unabated, but critical voices are being heard, not
just from a few <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">Academia corners as usual, but now by leading
technologists and <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">researchers of big companies in these very fields.
"Dissent" on the <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">contents, methodologies, and consequences of social
applications is growing.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">The industrial development of this IT sector
--notwithstanding the <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">inflated proclamations and all the hype of the gurus--
does not mean the <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">arrival of some great singularity, or the symbiosis
with machines, or <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">widespread menace of robots & cyborgs... these are
slogans coming from <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">the industrialists to maintain social/ideological
preeminence for their <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">whole sector. Rather I think they are starting to feel
the consequences <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">of their social overstretching in different ways.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">The fundamental point, in my opinion, is that our
solitary, isolated <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">efforts from a few Academia places (Sciences &
Humanities) in the quest <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">for new perspectives in Information Science, and not
just AI <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">development, should not isolated any more. We can now
establish an <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">interesting dialog and partnership with those new
"dissenters" of the <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">technology in its concepts, methods, and social
applications. It is upon <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">us to improve the discussion procedures, the
collaborations, the <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">organization, etc. so that this opportunity might
materialize <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">progressively. Do not ask me how... In any case I
pointed out three <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">future directions for IS4SI advancement: community
building, attracting <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">scientific/technological avantgarde, and
organizational improvement.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">Revitalizing this discussion list--shouldn't it be one
of the first steps?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">Best greetings to all,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">--Pedro<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">-------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">Pedro C. Marijuán<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">-------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-m_8386423096837602299MsoPlainText"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt">---<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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