<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="DE-AT">Dear
Neo-Encyclopedists,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="DE-AT"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">we are working hard to gain a common perspective over such
diverse subjects as {self-awareness, consciousness, life, quantum, information,
hierarchy, structures, intelligence, organised, causal pathway, constitutive
basis}, and the interplay among these concepts. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In psychology, intelligence is understood to mean the choice
by an organism of one among several alternatives for action, where the one
alternative chosen is a) understood by observers, and/or b) appears factually
to be advantageous for the organism. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Life is different to automatic reactions by the distinction
that specific automatic reactions appear invariably to specific stimuli; this
delineation defines life as a reaction pattern where to one stimulus there are
several alternative reactions (like phototaxie, e.g.).<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In this view, a machine can neither live nor be intelligent,
because it always delivers the same reaction to a specific stimulus (while
living organisms can tire of, be exhausted, ignore, reject, mis-react to one
and the same stimulus – all in dependence of some inner workings). There is an
element of unpredictability to anything that lives (e.g. it can unexpectedly
cease to live) save for the certainty of an end of its living state.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There are several surfaces to attach to and propose the
offer of being a skeleton behind the concepts:<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Krassimir (Feb 2):<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Now it is seen that there exists a hierarchy of structures which are
built by other structures from low levels. This model shows that, practically,
all entities of the real world are hierarchically organized.<span></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As we do the reading out of implications of aspect R of an
element (a,b) assigning this element a place P_A, while aspect W assigns this
same element a place P_W, we encounter several relations of low-, middle- and
high-level hierarchies. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Krassimir (Feb 2):<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">all
live structures we know at this moment have very important feature of
self-reproducing using DNA structures<span></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">All organisms that live depend on a temporal continuity,
where the temporal cross-section connects to the sequential readings of the
same elements. This means, that – in a living organism – the elements are
sufficiently connected to their temporal successors. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Jose (Feb 1):<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i>… have all the
properties one can think of when enumerating the features of consciousness, and
of course one can try to set up a hierarchy in which self-awareness could be at
the top... but again, that hierarchy would be our invention<span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If consciousness happens by assigning symbols to a LIMITED
number of carrier objects (and no one will claim that we have an infinite
number of cells in our system), there can only be a LIMITED number of different
enumerations of the elements that constitute that what is the case (features of
consciousness). Furthermore, on a limited number of elements, only a limited
number of nonredundant symbols can be placed. These generate hierarchies, the
total number of which is also limited. (A step in the hierarchy could be e.g.
the number of groups elements belong to and/or the exquisitivity of the groups
elements belong to, etc.). If one thinks even/odd numbers, e and pi (2.71,
3.14) and prime numbers, etc. to be nothing but our inventions, which do not
depict/mirror/order the outside Nature, then hierarchies coming from a-priori
properties of logical objects are also nothing but our invention. If one thinks
that pi (3.14) does play an objective role in Nature, then one should be
prepared to find hierarchies resulting from properties of natural numbers to
play an objective role in Nature. Nature has not forced us to think all
properties of natural numbers away: it is our human feebleness that prefers to
deal with general schemata (all are alike, different only of how many of
uniform units), saving the effort of memorising and dealing with the many
individual differences among such things which we state are all alike, although
they are not at all each and every one all alike but for the number of uniform
units. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Joseph (Feb 1):<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…
requires substantial changes in perspective regarding the scientific grounds of
logic, causality, semiosis, meaning, consciousness, communication and their
ethical implications. It is not a ‘theory of everything’ but points to the
underlying dialectics of existence and of complex phenomena, <span>viz. </span>information, within the laws of
physics. My basic classical reference is Heraclitus.<span></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Maybe the discussion can be enhanced by repeated references
to what the numbers say? The numbers are at your service and support what you
say. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bruno (Feb 1):<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">… few doubt that cells have some consciousness,
like I think that Mechanism enforces the presence of consciousness for all
universal digital machine.<span></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">… consciousness can be defined semi-axiomatically
by what is true, knowable, indubitable, yet non provable by the machine
concerned, nor definable ….<span></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In this reading, consciousness would be (based on?) the
collection of the alternatives which could also have been chosen. As machines
have no alternatives to their decisions, they can not have consciousness, QED.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bill (Jan 31):<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">...
the origin of consciousness might be most likely found through researching the
exact means by which an organism attaches to information space-time, which
reduces then, to studying the origin of life …<span></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Once we enter the Subject That For Traditional Folk Does Not
Exist (paths/strings/cycles/filaments that are implications of the different
nature of a vs.b) we find that the properties of the planes that constitute
space is dependent on the position and properties of elements while in a linear
order. (The plane’s characteristics are different if the axes are scaled on <i>(a+b,a; 2b-a,a) </i>rather than on <i>(a+b,b; 2b-a,2a-b). </i>Molecular chemistry will
figure out, in what aspects the amino acids differ so that one such will attach
that answers to <i>2a-b </i>rather than, say
<i>2a-3b </i>or<i> b-a.</i>)<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I liked the entry in Wikipedia about the Encyclopedists,
specifically the sentence: “Besides comprehensiveness, encyclopedic writing is
distinguished by its lack of a specific audience or practical application.” The
stated lack of practical application is an ultra-orthodox approach, but
subjectively, while constructing the Encyclopedia, there is some feeling of
truth in it.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best wishes<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Karl<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Mo., 4. Feb. 2019 um 00:40 Uhr schrieb Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Dear Stan, </div><div><br></div><div>I know that you made "hierarchies" central to your highly-respected theorizing. However, there is a difference between<i> considering</i> a system as hierarchical and claiming that it<i> is</i> hierarchical. The latter claim has to be proven. </div><div><br></div><div>I would accept the claim that most if not all systems can be considered as hierarchical (Herbert Simon). However, some of the interesting ones are not. For example, in the case of strange loops -- that is, when routines interrupt each other in ways that are not allowed in do-while loops. (Latour proposed the notion "infrareflexive" for this possibility of interruptions in the relations among communication systems.) I call these systems interesting because they bring new models, such as anticipatory systems, etc.)</div><div><br></div><div>My argument was mainly about the "simplicitly" of general assertions which cannot be proven. (Fortunately, I send this message as my second message in a week which passes in 15 minutes. :-) )</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Loet</div>
<div><br></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834signature_old"><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834x928750b1f1d045a"><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834x775eaf3ae7f6460082dcdda3faf877c6"><div><div><br></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834signature_old"><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834x920d19d74fc84b0"><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">
<hr width="100%" size="3" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Loet
Leydesdorff <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Professor emeritus,
University of Amsterdam<br>
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">loet@leydesdorff.net </span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">; </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size:9pt">Associate Faculty, </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">SPRU, </span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">University of Sussex; <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Guest Professor </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">ISTIC, </span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">Beijing;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Visiting Fellow, </span><span style="color:rgb(68,84,106)"><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt">,
University of London; <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(68,84,106)"><span style="font-size:9pt"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</a></span></span></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(68,84,106)"><br></span></div></div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Stanley N Salthe" <<a href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu" target="_blank">ssalthe@binghamton.edu</a>></div>
<div>To: "fis" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 2/3/2019 9:00:49 PM</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [Fis] about the idea of “hierarchies of structures”</div><div><br></div>
<div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834xa14bacb6606543f"><blockquote cite="http://CAEoH_fSDhZ2=ZUuK=YaRMh_Bobj3M==rx=OTj67aqyTATQiGxg@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="gmail-m_8371566924102073834cite2">
<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Loet -- Regarding:<div><blockquote cite="http://560AFBA6AD15448DBC46AC520DE4441A@vaiomarkov/" type="cite" class="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083cite2" style="margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="4"><br>The idea is simple: the real world consists of hierarchies of structures which are built by other structures from low levels.</font></p></div></div></blockquote><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0" style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:large"><font size="4">This is not only simple, it is a simplification. Perhaps, a considerable percentage of the "hierarchies" are "heterarchies"? We need a strategy to test the truth of such statements.</font></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0" style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:large"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">S: Heterarchies, I have found are for the most part systems of several hierarchies that are intersecting with common members -- a kind of mashup of hierarchies. There is no other principle of organization involved.</font></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">STAN </font><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 1:22 PM Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><div>Dear Krassimir, </div><div><br></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0"><blockquote cite="http://560AFBA6AD15448DBC46AC520DE4441A@vaiomarkov" type="cite" class="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083cite2"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The idea is simple: the real world consists of
hierarchies of structures which are built by other structures from low levels.
</font></p></div></div></blockquote><font size="4" face="Calibri"><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0"><font size="4">This is not only simple, it is a simplification. Perhaps, a considerable percentage of the "hierarchies" are "heterarchies"? We need a strategy to test the truth of such statements. References to Genesis are not helpful because that (Crhistianity) is a belief system, and not a system of rationalized and if possible testable expectations.</font></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0">It seems to me that there is no theoretical need for a "general theory of information." Information is generated when systems communicate. The information is yet dimension-free (bits). The reference to a system provides the information with dimensionality. </div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0"><br></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0">For example, when energy and momenta are communicated (and tend to be conserved), thermodynamic entropy is generated. When atoms are communicated, one expects a chemistry; when molecules are communicated a biology, etc. There may be no hierarchy among these levels, but rather a fractional manifold. The fragments perhaps fail to exist as hierarchies? We should not derive from "esse" (e.g., ontology), but from "frangere" (e.g., failure).</div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0"><br></div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0">Best,</div><div id="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083x6e4ac25a53684e0">Loet</div><br></font><blockquote cite="http://560AFBA6AD15448DBC46AC520DE4441A@vaiomarkov" type="cite" class="gmail-m_8371566924102073834gmail-m_-4131147435556355083cite2"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">This model shows that, practically, all entities of
the real world are hierarchically organized. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">Very important is that there not exists a total
comprehensive structure - just the opposite - the real world consists of very
great variety of structures.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">What is common for all structures? </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">To
answer, one need to look in the bases of the structures - all are organizations
of very small elements. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">Greeks
call them “atoms”, now we know that there exist “smaller” elements - electrons,
particles, photons, waves, and other “minute portions of matter” (“tiny
particles of dust”).</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">Further, I remembered the Ross Ashby idea of <font color="#000000">emerging
of the new features</font> at the given level of the system, which not exist in
the elements of low levels. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">Just, such features are live, intelligence, and consciousness, which emerge as new
properties of the structures (systems).</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">Ancient
wise people had noticed this!<br></font><font size="4">For
instance, please remember Genesis 2:7:
“Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into
his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.”</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">There
is no clear boundary between live structures and not live ones. In every moment
first may be destroyed to the second as well as the former may be organized to
the first one.<br></font><font size="4">For
instance, please remember Genesis 3:19:
“for dust you are and to dust you will return”.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">In General Information Theory (GIT), we consider the real world as a
space of entities. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The entities are built by other entities, connected with relationships.
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The entities and relationships between them form the internal structure
of the entity they build. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">To create the entity of a certain structural level of the world, it is
necessary to have:</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">−
Entities of the lower structural level;</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">−
Established forming relationship.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The entity can dialectically be considered as a relationship between its
entities of all internal structural levels.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The forming relationship has a representative significance for the
entity. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The destruction of this essential relationship causes its disintegration.
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The establishment of forming relationship between already existing
entities has a determine significance for the emerging of the new
entity.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The forming relationship is the reason for the emergence of individual
properties, which distinguish the new entity from the forming ones.
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">The relationships form and present the entity. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">(</font><a><font size="4" color="#0000ff">http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf</font></a><font size="4">)</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">Kind regards</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4">Krassimir</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;line-height:normal"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">----</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">Krassimir Markov</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">Honorary professor, PhD</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">University of Telecommunications and Post</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4">Sofia, Bulgaria</font></p>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:tahoma">
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div style="background-image:initial;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="markov@foibg.com" href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" target="_blank">Krassimir Markov</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 02, 2019 6:30 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="jlpvjlpv@gmail.com" href="mailto:jlpvjlpv@gmail.com" target="_blank">jose luis perez velazquez</a> ; <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [Fis] Living and not living structures</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><span style="line-height:16pt" lang="ES">Hola, José Luis y queridos FIS
colegas!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">The discussion came to very important point marked by
José Luis. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Now it is seen that there exists a hierarchy of
structures which are built by other structures from low levels. This model shows
that, practically, all entities of the real world are hierarchically
organized.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">What about the live and the intelligence? </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Practically, we came to the W. Ross Ashby’s
“PRINCIPLES OF THE SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEM”
<a><font color="#0000ff">https://emergent.blob.core.windows.net/classic-articles/3aa37176-f414-4820-b5e5-b3be0cdb0395.pdf</font></a>
.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">I kindly recommend this paper to be reread.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">For our discussion, very important are the next
sentences:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><strong></strong> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><strong>“<i>Every isolated determinate dynamic system
obeying unchanging laws will develop "organisms" that are adapted to their
"environments" </i></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><strong><i>and </i></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><strong><i>“In any isolated system, life and
intelligence inevitably develop.”</i></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">At the given level of complexity and organization,
some structures became “alive” and “intelligent” in some degree. As the
structure (system) is more complex, so it may be more intelligent.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">As Ashby remarked, live, intelligence, and (if I may
add) consciousness emerge as new property of the structure (system).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">There is no need to ask if the cell has consciousness
and intelligence. The answer is clear - YES!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">But its consciousness and intelligence are quite
different of those of the fish, bee, dog, or human.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">There is no clear boundary between live structures and
not live ones. In every moment first may be destroyed to the second as well as
the former may be organized to the first one. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Finally, all
live structures we know at this moment have very important feature of
self-reproducing using DNA structures.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Friendly greetings</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Krassimir</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt"><font size="4"></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">----</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Krassimir Markov</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Honorary professor, PhD</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">University of Telecommunications and Post</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:13pt">Sofia, Bulgaria</p>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:tahoma">
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div style="background-image:initial;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="jlpvjlpv@gmail.com" href="mailto:jlpvjlpv@gmail.com" target="_blank">jose luis perez velazquez</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 02, 2019 1:21 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [Fis] Fwd: "the mother of
information"--MINI-BRAINS</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From:
<strong class="gmail_sendername">jose luis perez velazquez</strong> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jlpvjlpv@gmail.com" target="_blank">jlpvjlpv@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Fri,
Feb 1, 2019 at 2:44 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Fis] "the mother of
information"--MINI-BRAINS<br>To: Alexander Fingelkurts <<a href="mailto:alexander.fingelkurts@bm-science.com" target="_blank">alexander.fingelkurts@bm-science.com</a>><br></div>
<div> </div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"> Hola a todos. In what I wrote
about lack of consciousness in particles or cells I should have been clearer. I
admit cells, bacteria etc. have some aspects/features of consciousness,
but I would not say they display self-awareness, perhaps one of the top
features. These problems are derived, once again,from the desire to define
precisely something like life, consciousness, or intelligence, things that are
almost impossible to define in one sentence. To wit, one definition of
intelligence is the ability to adapt to change, well, then bacteria are
intelligent. One aspect of life is compartmentalization and exchange of energy,
tehrefore some inorganic materials have this property and could be considered
"half alive". These notions we have created, life, consciousness, intelligence
etc. are nothing but that: our inventions. Out there in nature there is a
continuum; evolution operates mainly as a continuum without sharp steps
(although some apparently existed), as a dynamical system, a process.
Similar principles of organization apply to the living and non living (as I
tried to expound in "Finding simplicity in complexity: general principles of
biological and nonbiological organization", <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2710456" target="_blank">www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2710456</a>).</div>
<div dir="ltr"> Trying to impose clear demarcations in
these concepts is, to me, a mistake (or misunderstanding). Hence, I do agree
that cells share some features of consciousness, but perchance everybody would
agree with the fact that only humans, and perhaps other close relatives, have
all the properties one can think of when enumerating the features of
consciousness, and of course one can try to set up a hierarchy in which
self-awareness could be at the top... but again, that hierarchy would be our
invention.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div></div></div></div></div>
<p>
</p><hr>
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