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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN lang=ES
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-ansi-language: es">Hola, José Luis y queridos FIS
colegas!</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">The discussion came to very important point marked by
José Luis. </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Now it is seen that there exists a hierarchy of
structures which are built by other structures from low levels. This model shows
that, practically, all entities of the real world are hierarchically
organized.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">What about the live and the intelligence? </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Practically, we came to the W. Ross Ashby’s
“PRINCIPLES OF THE SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEM”<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN><A
style='href: "https://emergent.blob.core.windows.net/classic-articles/3aa37176-f414-4820-b5e5-b3be0cdb0395.pdf"'><FONT
color=#0000ff>https://emergent.blob.core.windows.net/classic-articles/3aa37176-f414-4820-b5e5-b3be0cdb0395.pdf</FONT></A>
.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">I kindly recommend this paper to be reread.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">For our discussion, very important are the next
sentences:</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt"><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt"><STRONG>“<I>Every isolated determinate dynamic system
obeying unchanging laws will develop "organisms" that are adapted to their
"environments" </I></STRONG></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt"><STRONG><I>and </I></STRONG></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt"><STRONG><I>“In any isolated system, life and
intelligence inevitably develop.”</I></STRONG></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt"><FONT size=4></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">At the given level of complexity and organization,
some structures became “alive” and “intelligent” in some degree. As the
structure (system) is more complex, so it may be more intelligent.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">As Ashby remarked, live, intelligence, and (if I may
add) consciousness emerge as new property of the structure (system).</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">There is no need to ask if the cell has consciousness
and intelligence. The answer is clear - YES!</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">But its consciousness and intelligence are quite
different of those of the fish, bee, dog, or human.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">There is no clear boundary between live structures and
not live ones. In every moment first may be destroyed to the second as well as
the former may be organized to the first one. </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt"><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Finally, a</SPAN>ll
live structures we know at this moment have very important feature of
self-reproducing using DNA structures.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Friendly greetings</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Krassimir</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT
size=4></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">----</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Krassimir Markov</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Honorary professor, PhD</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">University of Telecommunications and Post</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt">Sofia, Bulgaria</SPAN></P>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jlpvjlpv@gmail.com
href="mailto:jlpvjlpv@gmail.com">jose luis perez velazquez</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 02, 2019 1:21 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Fis] Fwd: "the mother of
information"--MINI-BRAINS</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>---------- Forwarded message ---------<BR>From:
<STRONG class=gmail_sendername>jose luis perez velazquez</STRONG> <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:jlpvjlpv@gmail.com">jlpvjlpv@gmail.com</A>></SPAN><BR>Date: Fri,
Feb 1, 2019 at 2:44 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Fis] "the mother of
information"--MINI-BRAINS<BR>To: Alexander Fingelkurts <<A
href="mailto:alexander.fingelkurts@bm-science.com">alexander.fingelkurts@bm-science.com</A>><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr> Hola a todos. In what I wrote
about lack of consciousness in particles or cells I should have been clearer. I
admit cells, bacteria etc. have some aspects/features of consciousness,
but I would not say they display self-awareness, perhaps one of the top
features. These problems are derived, once again,from the desire to define
precisely something like life, consciousness, or intelligence, things that are
almost impossible to define in one sentence. To wit, one definition of
intelligence is the ability to adapt to change, well, then bacteria are
intelligent. One aspect of life is compartmentalization and exchange of energy,
tehrefore some inorganic materials have this property and could be considered
"half alive". These notions we have created, life, consciousness, intelligence
etc. are nothing but that: our inventions. Out there in nature there is a
continuum; evolution operates mainly as a continuum without sharp steps
(although some apparently existed), as a dynamical system, a process.
Similar principles of organization apply to the living and non living (as I
tried to expound in "Finding simplicity in complexity: general principles of
biological and nonbiological organization", <A
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2710456"
target=_blank>www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2710456</A>).</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr> Trying to impose clear demarcations in
these concepts is, to me, a mistake (or misunderstanding). Hence, I do agree
that cells share some features of consciousness, but perchance everybody would
agree with the fact that only humans, and perhaps other close relatives, have
all the properties one can think of when enumerating the features of
consciousness, and of course one can try to set up a hierarchy in which
self-awareness could be at the top... but again, that hierarchy would be our
invention.</DIV>
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