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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=ZH-CN link=blue vlink=black><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>Dear Pedro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:24.0pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>A wonderful post.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:24.0pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>Let me try to summarize your point briefly as follows: In the process of cell signal transduction (cell information communication), we should not only pay attention to the routine communication process of base sequence or gene, but also to the role of the environment on them. The environments that impose influence on base sequence or gene and the pathways when they work will add complexity to the cells. This is an important bioinformational approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:24.0pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>If I am not mistaken, these views are somewhat esoteric for non-biologists, even for ordinary biologists who do not study cell signal transduction. But based on my limited knowledge of biology, I fully agree with you. Because some biologists have proposed that organisms have two kinds of information flow: genetic information flow and environmental information flow. They think we should have a "Environmental (Information Communication) Central Dogma" which is parallel to the "Genetic (Information Communication) Central Dogma" proposed by Francis Crick.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:24.0pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>As for your second question: Does this situation exist in the process of social information communication? My view is: Definitely. But this issue will certainly not become the subject of communication studies in today's and even in the next 20 years</span><span style='color:windowtext'>’<span lang=EN-US>. It should belong to the deep problem of "variation" of "information" in the process of social communication. But the current communication studies has not even put forward a basic principle, who else will pay attention to this complicated and advanced communication problem?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:24.0pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>By the way, your "Information is relative to the life cycle", is it a definition of information? or a special description of the information attribute? In the field of ontological study of social information communication, a more common term of Discourse/Text can be waited for when we leave the Narrative discussion behind.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;line-height:16.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext'>Xueshan</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:DengXian;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:DengXian;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pedro C. Marijuan<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 8, 2018 12:38 AM<br><b>To:</b> fis@listas.unizar.es<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Focusing on Narratives. Infordomics<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Dear Xueshan and FIS Colleagues,<br><br>In your two posts you raise fundamental guidelines for social information science. I much praise your efforts to bring coherence and structure into this fundamental part of the whole information realm. A problem you ponder, which Joseph has entered, relates to the importance of meaning and semiotics (semiosis, semantics, etc.). Given that I maintain a long standing disagreement with almost everybody in this matter, both in the biological and in the social, I cannot help but saying a couple of things finally trying to connect with the leit motif of the current discussion.<br><br>My conclusion after considerable years of work in cellular signaling (contained in half dozen main papers during last years) would not only be that "INFORMATION IS RELATIVE..." but that it has to be appended with "... TO THE LIFE CYCLE". So putting them together: INFORMATION IS RELATIVE TO THE LIFE CYCLE. Unfortunately a whole generation of biosemioticians have only focused in the DNA stupendous combinatorics of bases later translated in the ribosome as proteins, connecting it with the Peircean schemes. And they have disregarded what are the pathways that communicate with the environment so that the specific energy contents needed may be recognized and imported. This kind of signaling pathways have been used later on to produce the astonishing complexity of multicellulars. Like in the classical dictum <em><span style='font-family:SimSun'>"omnes viae</span></em><span class=st><i> Romam </i></span><em><span style='font-family:SimSun'>ducunt" (all ways lead to Rome), </span></em>all of these signaling pathways, <span class=st>all the communication events with the environment, </span> directly or indirectly conduce to the advancement of the life cycle. Meaning is thereafter built as the generative result of each one of these paths or of their coalitions. Overall, a very different bioinformational approach looms--unfortunately scarcely trodden yet... Anyhow, we are going excessively into the biological arena.<br><br>The point is whether, in social information science, could something similar be occurring? Isn't all the superstructure of linguistic communication essentially animated by the necessities, pulsions, and expectations of a life in progress? Doesn't the life course, in the form of all of its neuronal instantaneities, appear as the main mover of our own consciousness contents? (a specific discussion session on consciousness would be needed here). At least, if we go now to the current discussion, isn't the advancement of the individual's life the main focus of traditional narratives? If some of these questions are responded positively, social information science would benefit of establishing a "zeroth principle" around the life course, the Rome to which all human communication paths conduce ... which I leave open, as I do not like my present attempt ("The multifarious forms of social information can only be understood as interwoven in the collective fabric of human lives").<br><br>This my second cent of the week, so I leave for a next occasion the comment on Plamen's touching and intriguing content (plus Francesco and Karl).<br><br>Best wishes<br>--Pedro<br><br><br>El 06/12/2018 a las 9:07, Xueshan Yan escribió:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Dear Joseph,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Very sorry for the late reply. I think all the questions you put forward hit the points what I said and each one of them is crucial. Let me give you my brief answers as follows.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt'><b><span lang=EN-GB>1. The root -<i>domos</i> of the word Infordomics</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Yes, the basic meaning of Greek root '-<i>domos</i>' is <i>house</i> or <i>place</i>, but in older English dictionaries, it has another meaning: others, miscellaneous.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt'><b><span lang=EN-GB>2. Semiotics as Linguistics and as a major stand-alone</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>This question is not difficult to understand. Saussure once said that "Linguistics is a sign subject." In other words, there are many branches of semiotics (just as there are many branches of information science). Linguistics is only one of the most important, mature, and standard branch of semiotics. In addition, we also have many other non-mainstream semiotics branch to deal with body language, music language, dance language, painting language and so on. All these are some human languages, and there are many other natural signs to study yet. So we can only regard (human) linguistics what we usually called as one of the branches of semiotics. Yes, you are right, in my statement, the serious one should be: "Semiotics <a name="OLE_LINK2"></a><a name="OLE_LINK1"><span style='mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2'>discusses</span></a> the form of information." Instead of: "Semiotics (Linguistics) discusses the form of information."</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt'><b><span lang=EN-GB>3. Information, Meaning, Semiotics, and Semiotics</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Just as Søren and I suggested in another place, we could consider "Information, Meaning, and Sign" as a set of adjacent topics and should gave a special concern. In order to maintain the unity of rhetoric, my suggestion is: Information, Meaning, and Sign. (or Informatics, Semantics, and Semiotics). I agree with your "Semiosis both as meaning and as a dynamic process of reasoning and of generating meaning.", as for whether to add it in this set or not, both will be OK. Generally speaking, you, Søren, and I agree that Information, Meaning, and Sign are three basic concepts in our study of social/human information and communication.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt'><b><span lang=EN-GB>4. Meaning does not mean that it is an unscientific concept</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>As we can see, the relationship between information and meaning has been discussed in our FIS forums for 20 years. Semantics of human natural language has been studied for about 80 years. Meaning research in other humanities (including a large number of philosophical and logical works) even has a more longer history, but none of these studies has yet produced a universally accepted explanation. Can our fundamental information science explorers contribute a little to this? I'm looking forward to it.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>When we read the works of biology, genetics, and genomics, the common statement is that the four base combinations of A, G, C, and T constitute a base sequence, and a group of base sequences constitute a gene. In neuroscience, in astrophysics, there is only "information" but no "meaning". In computer science, in Shannon's information theory, there is only "information" but no "meaning" too. Therefore, when I discuss <i>Inforware</i>, I define it as the three-level combination of "Information, Sign, and Substrate" rather than the four-level combination of "Information, Meaning, Sign, and Substrate". Very fortunately, Guoheng Jia, a Chinese situation semantist, has given a preliminary judgment that "information" and "meaning" could be equivalent. (I've invited him to come to our FIS to give a talk in due course.)</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:6.0pt;mso-para-margin-top:.5gd;text-indent:24.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>FIS has been discussing for 20 years, and the fundamental exploration of information science has been going on for decades. What is the contribution of the researchers to it? Very little! We would fell relieved if we could take even some small steps and make some small contributions to the basic issues. Starting from some promising place and doing it down-to-earth, greed has no future.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Best wishes,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Xueshan</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:DengXian'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joseph Brenner<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> fis </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><fis@listas.unizar.es></span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Focusing on Narratives. Infordomics</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Dear Xueshan,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>Thank you for your proposal of a domain of Infordomics. I see it as a way of furthering the useful insights that can be gained thorough classification, guidelines and protocols of discussion. I note that </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>–<span lang=EN-GB>domics and domain have the same Greek root </span><i>‘<span lang=EN-GB>domos</span>’ – </i><span lang=EN-GB>house or place, hence, the <u>place</u> for information.</span></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>However, I think that your proposed inclusion of Semiotics as Linguistics and as a major stand-alone subject is problematic. This is in part due to the absence, in your list, of an explicit reference to Meaning.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>Sören has proposed as a subject, in another context, </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>“<span lang=EN-GB>Information, Meaning and Semiotics</span>”<span lang=EN-GB>. For discussion here, I would have preferred Information, Meaning, Semiosis and Semiotics. I see Semiosis both as meaning and as a dynamic process of reasoning and of generating meaning. On the other hand, Semiotics is rather a classificatory system applied to formal, structural aspects of language. Of course, there is some overlap with meaning, but Semiotics as most commonly used today suffers from its implied reference to and dependence on the categories, logic and classifications of Peirce. It is necessary to remind ourselves that the Peircean approach is only one among others, and that more serious scientific and ontological commitments can be made in some of the latter. </span></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>The fact that Meaning in a sense in involved in all the fields you define (psychology, communication, social information) does not mean that it is an unscientific concept; it is that it, like information itself, requires some additional dynamic dimensions for its description.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>Best wishes,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>Joseph</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=EN-US><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> Fis [</span><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Xueshan Yan<br><b>Sent:</b> mardi, 4 décembre 2018 11:08<br><b>To:</b> FIS Group<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Focusing on Narratives</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt'><span lang=EN-US>Dear Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:12.0pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Thanks Pedro for introducing the important topic of narrative, many views of Loet, Joseph, Karl, of course Pedro, etc. are very profound.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>After accomplished my first book to investigate various information and informational disciplines, my second book, <i>Infordomics</i>, will concentrate on discussing information issues in the Humanities and Social Sciences, narrative will be its main concern. I have collected a dozen of books about these aspects. Infordomics is a new discipline which I named. As far as the current information concerned, technological information, biological information, and social information are the three dominating types we have seen. Technological information has been exclusively studied by technological informatics (computer science, telecommunications science), biological information has been exclusively studied by biology, and only social information is a scattered topic in history, journalism, literature, art, religion, anthropology, sociology, and others, we haven</span>’<span lang=EN-US>t a special discipline to deal with it so far. Therefore, I think that achievements on information for us are most likely in this field.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>As far as the information issues we are concerning, Psychology discusses the processing of information, communication (Communicology) discusses the transmission of information, Semiotics (Linguistics) discusses the form of information, and Infordomics will discuss the remaining issues of information. At the beginning, I may concentrate on its structure problems. Psychology, Communicology, Semiotics (Linguistics), and Infordomics (other new disciplines on information may emerge in the future certainly.) constitute a systematic study about social/human information.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>However, our FIS (including our IS4SI) is at a hard time now, and we need a firm and promising guideline and protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:18.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt'><span lang=EN-US>Xueshan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=EN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US>Fis mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre></blockquote><p><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=EN-US>-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US>Pedro C. Mariju</span>á<span lang=EN-US>n<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US>Grupo de Bioinformaci</span>ó<span lang=EN-US>n / Bioinformation Group<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-US>------------------------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></pre><div id=DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=4 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=56 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 style='width:.4821in;height:.3035in' id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=349 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>Libre de virus. </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>