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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Xueshan and FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
In your two posts you raise fundamental guidelines for social
information science. I much praise your efforts to bring coherence
and structure into this fundamental part of the whole information
realm. A problem you ponder, which Joseph has entered, relates to
the importance of meaning and semiotics (semiosis, semantics,
etc.). Given that I maintain a long standing disagreement with
almost everybody in this matter, both in the biological and in the
social, I cannot help but saying a couple of things finally trying
to connect with the leit motif of the current discussion.<br>
<br>
My conclusion after considerable years of work in cellular
signaling (contained in half dozen main papers during last years)
would not only be that "INFORMATION IS RELATIVE..." but that it
has to be appended with "... TO THE LIFE CYCLE". So putting them
together: INFORMATION IS RELATIVE TO THE LIFE CYCLE. Unfortunately
a whole generation of biosemioticians have only focused in the DNA
stupendous combinatorics of bases later translated in the ribosome
as proteins, connecting it with the Peircean schemes. And they
have disregarded what are the pathways that communicate with the
environment so that the specific energy contents needed may be
recognized and imported. This kind of signaling pathways have been
used later on to produce the astonishing complexity of
multicellulars. Like in the classical dictum <i><span class="st"><em>"omnes
viae</em> Romam <em>ducunt" (all ways lead to Rome), </em></span></i>all
of these signaling pathways, <span class="st">all the
communication events with the environment, </span> directly or
indirectly conduce to the advancement of the life cycle. Meaning
is thereafter built as the generative result of each one of these
paths or of their coalitions. Overall, a very different
bioinformational approach looms--unfortunately scarcely trodden
yet... Anyhow, we are going excessively into the biological arena.<br>
<br>
The point is whether, in social information science, could
something similar be occurring? Isn't all the superstructure of
linguistic communication essentially animated by the necessities,
pulsions, and expectations of a life in progress? Doesn't the life
course, in the form of all of its neuronal instantaneities, appear
as the main mover of our own consciousness contents? (a specific
discussion session on consciousness would be needed here). At
least, if we go now to the current discussion, isn't the
advancement of the individual's life the main focus of traditional
narratives? If some of these questions are responded positively,
social information science would benefit of establishing a "zeroth
principle" around the life course, the Rome to which all human
communication paths conduce ... which I leave open, as I do not
like my present attempt ("The multifarious forms of social
information can only be understood as interwoven in the collective
fabric of human lives").<br>
<br>
This my second cent of the week, so I leave for a next occasion
the comment on Plamen's touching and intriguing content (plus
Francesco and Karl).<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
--Pedro<br>
<br>
<br>
El 06/12/2018 a las 9:07, Xueshan Yan escribió:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">Dear Joseph,</span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">Very sorry for the late reply. I think all the
questions you put forward hit the points what I said and
each one of them is crucial. Let me give you my brief
answers as follows.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt"><b><span
lang="EN-GB">1. The root -<i>domos</i> of the word
Infordomics<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">Yes, the basic meaning of Greek root '-<i>domos</i>'
is <i>house</i> or <i>place</i>, but in older English
dictionaries, it has another meaning: others, miscellaneous.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt"><b><span
lang="EN-GB">2. Semiotics as Linguistics and as a major
stand-alone<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">This question is not difficult to understand.
Saussure once said that "Linguistics is a sign subject." In
other words, there are many branches of semiotics (just as
there are many branches of information science). Linguistics
is only one of the most important, mature, and standard
branch of semiotics. In addition, we also have many other
non-mainstream semiotics branch to deal with body language,
music language, dance language, painting language and so on.
All these are some human languages, and there are many other
natural signs to study yet. So we can only regard (human)
linguistics what we usually called as one of the branches of
semiotics. Yes, you are right, in my statement, the serious
one should be: "Semiotics <a name="OLE_LINK2"
moz-do-not-send="true"></a><a name="OLE_LINK1"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2">discusses</span></a> the
form of information." Instead of: "Semiotics (Linguistics)
discusses the form of information."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt"><b><span
lang="EN-GB">3. Information, Meaning, Semiotics, and
Semiotics</span></b><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">Just as Søren and I suggested in another place,
we could consider "Information, Meaning, and Sign" as a set
of adjacent topics and should gave a special concern. In
order to maintain the unity of rhetoric, my suggestion is:
Information, Meaning, and Sign. (or Informatics, Semantics,
and Semiotics). I agree with your "Semiosis both as meaning
and as a dynamic process of reasoning and of generating
meaning.", as for whether to add it in this set or not, both
will be OK. Generally speaking, you, Søren, and I agree that
Information, Meaning, and Sign are three basic concepts in
our study of social/human information and communication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.1pt"><b><span
lang="EN-GB">4. Meaning does not mean that it is an
unscientific concept<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">As we can see, the relationship between
information and meaning has been discussed in our FIS forums
for 20 years. Semantics of human natural language has been
studied for about 80 years. Meaning research in other
humanities (including a large number of philosophical and
logical works) even has a more longer history, but none of
these studies has yet produced a universally accepted
explanation. Can our fundamental information science
explorers contribute a little to this? I'm looking forward
to it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">When we read the works of biology, genetics,
and genomics, the common statement is that the four base
combinations of A, G, C, and T constitute a base sequence,
and a group of base sequences constitute a gene. In
neuroscience, in astrophysics, there is only "information"
but no "meaning". In computer science, in Shannon's
information theory, there is only "information" but no
"meaning" too. Therefore, when I discuss <i>Inforware</i>,
I define it as the three-level combination of "Information,
Sign, and Substrate" rather than the four-level combination
of "Information, Meaning, Sign, and Substrate". Very
fortunately, Guoheng Jia, a Chinese situation semantist, has
given a preliminary judgment that "information" and
"meaning" could be equivalent. (I've invited him to come to
our FIS to give a talk in due course.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:6.0pt;mso-para-margin-top:.5gd;text-indent:24.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">FIS has been discussing for 20 years, and the
fundamental exploration of information science has been
going on for decades. What is the contribution of the
researchers to it? Very little! We would fell relieved if we
could take even some small steps and make some small
contributions to the basic issues. Starting from some
promising place and doing it down-to-earth, greed has no
future.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Xueshan</span><span
style="font-family:DengXian;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:DengXian;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joseph
Brenner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> fis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Focusing on Narratives.
Infordomics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="FR">Dear Xueshan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Thank you for
your proposal of a domain of Infordomics. I see it as a way
of furthering the useful insights that can be gained
thorough classification, guidelines and protocols of
discussion. I note that –domics and domain have the same
Greek root <i>‘domos’ – </i></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:red" lang="EN-GB">house or place,
hence</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">, the <u>place</u>
for information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">However, I think
that your proposed inclusion of Semiotics as Linguistics and
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:red" lang="EN-GB">as a major
stand-alone subject is problematic</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">. This is in part
due to the absence, in your list, of an explicit reference
to Meaning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Sören has
proposed as a subject, in another context, “Information,
Meaning and Semiotics”. For discussion here, I would have
preferred Information, Meaning, </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:red" lang="EN-GB">Semiosis and
Semiotics</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">. I see Semiosis
both as meaning and as a dynamic process of reasoning and of
generating meaning. On the other hand, Semiotics is rather a
classificatory system applied to formal, structural aspects
of language. Of course, there is some </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:red" lang="EN-GB">overlap with
meaning</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">, but Semiotics
as most commonly used today suffers from its implied
reference to and dependence on the categories, logic and
classifications of Peirce. It is necessary to remind
ourselves that the Peircean approach is only one among
others, and that more serious scientific and ontological
commitments can be made in some of the latter. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">The fact that
Meaning in a sense in involved in all the fields you define
(psychology, communication, social information) does not
mean that </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:red" lang="EN-GB">it is an
unscientific concept</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">; it is that it,
like information itself, requires some additional dynamic
dimensions for its description.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">
<hr size="3" align="center" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Fis [</span><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Xueshan Yan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mardi, 4 décembre 2018 11:08<br>
<b>To:</b> FIS Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Focusing on Narratives</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Dear Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Thanks Pedro for introducing the important
topic of narrative, many views of Loet, Joseph, Karl, of
course Pedro, etc. are very profound.</span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">After accomplished my first book to investigate
various information and informational disciplines, my second
book, <i>Infordomics</i>, will concentrate on discussing
information issues in the Humanities and Social Sciences,
narrative will be its main concern. I have collected a dozen
of books about these aspects. Infordomics is a new
discipline which I named. As far as the current information
concerned, technological information, biological
information, and social information are the three dominating
types we have seen. Technological information has been
exclusively studied by technological informatics (computer
science, telecommunications science), biological information
has been exclusively studied by biology, and only social
information is a scattered topic in history, journalism,
literature, art, religion, anthropology, sociology, and
others, we haven</span>’<span lang="EN-US">t a special
discipline to deal with it so far. Therefore, I think that
achievements on information for us are most likely in this
field.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">As far as the information issues we are
concerning, Psychology discusses the processing of
information, communication (Communicology) discusses the
transmission of information, Semiotics (Linguistics)
discusses the form of information, and Infordomics will
discuss the remaining issues of information. At the
beginning, I may concentrate on its structure problems.
Psychology, Communicology, Semiotics (Linguistics), and
Infordomics (other new disciplines on information may emerge
in the future certainly.) constitute a systematic study
about social/human information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:21.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">However, our FIS (including our IS4SI) is at a
hard time now, and we need a firm and promising guideline
and protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:18.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Xueshan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<br>
</div>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
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<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 18px;"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" /></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 17px; color: #41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Libre de virus. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a> </td>
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