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<p>Dear FIS
Colleagues,</p>
<p>As the current discussion advances, I am
strengthening the opinion that a Social
Information/Communication
(SIC) Theory could be built... possibly! Indeed the covered
phenomena
of social information & communication form part of our
nature;
they are implicit everywhere in all stages of our life cycle,
like
water for the fish. It is their absence what starkly calls our
attention rather than their continuous presence around. Szent
Gyorgi
made great sentences on water, one of them: "Water, the Hub of
Life.
Water is its mater and matrix, mother and medium. Water is the
most
extraordinary substance." Indeed so essential is water for
whatever
aspect of cellular life... nice metaphor for our seamless ocean
of
social communication via narratives/stories. </p>
<p>Remembering
the quotation I made from Booker days ago: "The scientific
approach has not realized that our urge to understand the world
and to imagine stories is something as much governed by laws as
the structures of the atom or the genome." The challenge I dare
suggest for next weeks would be to compose a series of of
well-crafted
points giving more formal shape to he Golden Paradigm that
articulates
(good) stories... And if we remind the Principle of Conatus by
Spinoza, the persistence of life on its own maintenance and
flourishing, the proposed (futurible) SIC Theory would not be
too far
away from, let us say, the "Cellular Information/Communication"
Theory. </p>
<p>Too bold for today?</p>
<p>Best wishes to all--Pedro</p>
<br>
El 14/11/2018 a las 5:44, Francesco Rizzo escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEvKwyTZfRTOFUrtMvXDvdt5BoXogFwLb=q-jV5_dffp+08WGQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">Cari Pedro, Xueshan, Joseph e Tutti,
<div>desidero dare un contributo teorico e pratico al filone
della ricerca intrapresa, senza alcuna presunzione.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A. La logica nella realtà o la realtà nella logica prende
le mosse dall'economia dialettica hegeliana che ha </div>
<div>un ruolo costitutivo, rilevante e strutturale nella SCIENZA
DELLA LOGICA pubblicata dal filosofo dal 1812</div>
<div>al 1816.</div>
<div>Essa si articola in tre dottrine:</div>
<div>* dell'ESSERE, cioè del pensiero nella sua immediatezza,
del concetto in quanto è IN SE';</div>
<div>* dell'ESSENZA, che studia il pensiero nella sua
riflessione o mediazione, cioè il concetto in quanto è PER SE'</div>
<div>e dunque appare;</div>
<div>* del CONCETTO, che studia il concetto IN SE' e PER SE'.</div>
<div>La dottrine dell'ESSERE tratta delle categorie della
QUANTITA', QUALITA' e MISURA.</div>
<div>Dottrina dell'ESSERE e dottrina dell'ESSENZA costituiscono
per Hegel un tutt'uno che egli chiama LOGICA</div>
<div> OGGETTIVA perché riferita alla REALTA' che esiste
indipendentemente del soggetto che la pensa, mentre la</div>
<div> terza parte, dottrina del CONCETTO, è definita LOGICA
SOGGETTIVA. </div>
<div>La realtà esiste come oggetto-ESSERE e nel suo aspetto più
intimo e profondo come ESSENZA.</div>
<div>Per Hegel la categoria della QUANTITA' svolge il suo ruolo
come antitesi della QUALITA' che rappresenta la tesi, </div>
<div>per giungere al risultato finale sintetico rappresentato
dalla MISURA.</div>
<div>La QUANTITA' QUALITATIVA o MISURA è alla base soprattutto
delle scienze esperenziali, non astratte, che</div>
<div> si basano sulla logica concreta, empirica, reale
(Joseph). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>B. Tra queste scienze stanno anche la biologia e l'economia
che adottano e adattano la scienza della logica, non la</div>
<div>filosofia della logica. E in questo con-testo si situa la
semiotica-ermeneutica della triade significazione,
informazione,</div>
<div>comunicazione. La NARRAZIONE si avvale di questa terna che
non vale solo per le relazioni umane, ma in</div>
<div>un certo qual modo riguarda anche la comunicazione
cellulare e inter o epi-genetica (Pedro).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>C. Per quanto riguarda,<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;font-size:16px;text-indent:26.6667px"> "</span><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;font-size:16px;text-indent:26.6667px">All
Molecules, Cells, and Brains can be consider as Inforwares
and of course can</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;font-size:16px;text-indent:26.6667px">form
Communication-dipoles to communicate. Information research
inside brain is a biology task, and </span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;font-size:16px;text-indent:26.6667px">outside
brain is a (Human/Social) Informatics task" (</span>Xueshan),
affermo che come v'è<font face="Times New Roman, serif"
color="#000000"><span style="font-size:16px"> una
comunicazione-trasmissione </span></font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman, serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:16px">di segnali tra le macchine, a
maggior ragione v'è una comunicazione-interazione tra le
cellule sane e/o</span></font></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">malate che siano. </span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">Inoltre, già sin dal 1983, nel
rinnovare la definizione di bene culturale, ho dichiarato
che un'opera d'arte</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">è contemporaneamente INFORMATA e
INFORMATRICE perchè è nello stesso tempo EFFETTO-FRUTTO</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">di un processo di tras-in-form-azione
e CAUSA di un altro processo di tras-in-form-azione.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">So che le mie parole possono essere
considerate aforistiche, apodistiche e oracolari, ma ho
creduto di </span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">scriverle per contribuire con imiltà
a tracciare una strada comune, percorribile da Tutti, ma
sempre poliedrica.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">Grazie per l'attenzione che mi
regalerete.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">Francesco.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">Il giorno lun 12 nov 2018 alle ore 07:28 Loet
Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>> ha
scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Dear Joseph, Mark, Pedro, and colleagues, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Yes, I agree with Joseph: Daniel Dubois did a
wonderful job in Liege. I was deeply involved in it. See,
for example, my vice-presidential lecture:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Leydesdorff,
L. (2008). The Communication of Meaning in
Anticipatory Systems: A Simulation Study of the
Dynamics of Intentionality in Social Interactions. In
D. M. Dubois (Ed.), </span> <i> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Proceedings
of the 8th Intern. Conf. on Computing Anticipatory
Systems CASYS'07</span> </i> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">
(Vol. 1051 pp. 33-49). Melville, NY: American
Institute of Physics Conference Proceedings.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But in the context of this list, please, note:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Leydesdorff,
L., Johnson, M., & Ivanova, I. A. (2014). The
Communication of Expectations and Individual
Understanding: Redundancy as Reduction of Uncertainty,
and the Processing of Meaning. </span> <i> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Kybernetes,
43</span> </i> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">(9/10),
1362-1371.</span></div>
<div><span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div>
<div> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Leydesdorff,
L., Johnson, M., & Ivanova, I. (2018). Toward a
Calculus of Redundancy: Signification, Codification,
and Anticipation in Cultural Evolution. </span> <i>
<span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Journal
of the Association for Information Science and
Technology, 69</span> </i> <span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">(10),
1181-1192. doi: 10.1002/asi.24052</span> </div>
</div>
<div><span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">2.
A narrative assumes a geometrical metaphor. Systems,
however, are algorithmic. Thus, the geometrical model
provides us with a window on the evolving complexity.
The model does terrible things to the tangential
systems (John Casti).</span></div>
<div><span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Best,</span></div>
<div><span
style="background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt">Loet</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="m_3343927077071372983signature_old">
<div id="m_3343927077071372983xc47d511d8232481">
<div
id="m_3343927077071372983x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">
<hr size="3" align="center" width="100%">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">Loet
Leydesdorff </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">Professor
emeritus,
University of Amsterdam<br>
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546a"><a
href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">loet@leydesdorff.net
</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">; </span><span
style="color:#44546a"><a
href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/"
title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size:9pt">Associate
Faculty, </span><span style="color:#44546a"><a
href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt">SPRU, </span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9pt">University of Sussex; </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Guest
Professor </span><span style="color:#44546a"><a
href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9pt">, Hangzhou; Visiting
Professor, </span><span style="color:#44546a"><a
href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt">ISTIC, </span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9pt">Beijing;</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Visiting
Fellow, </span><span style="color:#44546a"><a
href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9pt">,
University of London; </span></p>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt"><a
href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</a></span></span></div>
<div
id="m_3343927077071372983x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Joseph Brenner" <<a
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>></div>
<div>To: "fis" <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 11/11/2018 9:17:44 PM</div>
<div>Subject: [Fis] FW: : Anticipatory Systems</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="m_3343927077071372983xefb6e11119994da">
<blockquote
cite="http://6893D1851AC54B428BF0E8137378251D@laptopr7q1bsbb"
type="cite" class="m_3343927077071372983cite2">
<div class="m_3343927077071372983Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy">Dear
Pedro, Dear Mark,</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"> </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Thank
you for your references to
Logic in Reality. Before commenting on my work,
I would like to note that no
references in this thread have been yet made to
the extensive work on
anticipation by Rosen of course, and more
recently by Daniel Dubois in Liège
and Roberto Poli in Trento. Roberto has been
leading a major European
initiative in the field of anticipatory systems.
Although he and I do not always
agree, no serious study of anticipation should
ignore his work.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">I
am very glad to be able to
state here that Stéphane Lupasco, from whose
logical system LIR was derived,
gives a major place to biological, cognitive
phenomena, including consciousness,
and social systems, including his work on
ethics. By good fortune, I have just
been able to publish the first paper in English
on the Lupasco theory of
consciousness (in a <i>Newsletter </i>of
the American Philosophical Association.) With
this work fresh in mind, I am in
a good position to suggest, taking up Mark’s
point, that it is LIR and <i>not</i> standard
bivalent logic that expresses
the dynamic structure of consciousness and
experience. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">As
it turns out, the first paper
I published was entitled “<i>Process </i>in
Reality”. I have emphasized process in all
subsequent work and not only
criticized “easy cases of self-organization” but
the major errors
that can be made by assigning self-organization
an exclusive role, without
prior and accompanying hetero-organization, that
is, the necessary external or
prior input.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Coming
back to Mark, I find very
intriguing his thought that logic may be a
metasystem of itself. As background,
I have claimed that Logic in Reality is also a
metalogic, in that it discusses
how logic “is to be done”, and further that its
logical and
metalogical characteristics are not separated or
separable. I further wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-GB">The
metalogical</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"> properties
of LIR are thus of an entirely different kind,
since it is
based on a view of nature that does not consider
fundamental either to the
abstract entities of pure classical propositional
or mathematical logic or the
anthropomorphic ontological concepts of
phenomenology. The most fundamental
metalogical principle of LIR is that of opposition
or antagonism</span><span lang="EN-GB">, without
which, in this view, nothing could exist (see the
next
Section). This is, therefore, at the same time the
most fundamental
metaphysical principle</span><span lang="EN-GB"> of
LIR.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">On
this basis, I could say that <i>my</i> Logic in
Reality as a system could be a
metasystem of itself, without conflation. But
what is the general relation
between a system and a metasystem? I would
welcome some further thoughts by
Mark on this point in terms of a definition of a
metasystem that we can all
discuss. But please let me again distinguish
between standard logic and LIR: it
is the former that is the epitome of coherence.
LIR does not require absolute
coherence as a necessary property in a world
that is <i>both</i> coherent and incoherent.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">I
will comment later on Xueshan’s
concept of Inforware. I guess I hesitated a bit
when I read that reduction-analysis
was a key part of the strategy for development
of information studies, but,
Xueshan, “let’s talk”. There is also a very
delicate question
of the usage here of the English terms
‘inevitable’ and ‘inevitably’.
It is not incorrect but in my mind just slightly
‘off’ in a
negative sense. Perhaps an alternate term which
someone or my unconscious might
suggest would be better. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Best
wishes to all,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Joseph</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><font size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">
<hr size="3" align="center" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font
size="2" face="Tahoma"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"
lang="EN-US">
Fis [mailto:<a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]
<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Mark Johnson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> dimanche, 11 novembre 2018
17:31<br>
<b>To:</b> fis<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] : Anticipatory
Systems</span></font><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"> </font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt">Dear all,</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt">Whilst appreciating
the opportunity to think about narrative
(and the aspect of narrative which interests
me most is coherence) I have been
worrying about less positive ways in which
stories can be powerful. Every nasty
ideological regime in history has a story to
tell to defend itself. My mind was
drawn to Popper's "The Poverty of
historicism". He's right isn't he?</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt">This is where I
disagree with Pedro about logic and
complexity. We tend to make stories about
things we don't understand - and
complexity is one of those things: a story
is a metasystem of something. If we
are free to choose our metasystem, we are
free to manipulate others. I am tempted
to say logic is not a narrative but it is
revealed through narrative's
structure. More importantly, <font
color="navy">logic </font>may
be a metasystem of itself. That implies that
logic (and maybe LIR) is a
fundamental expression of the structure of
consciousness through which
everything else is experienced. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt">Is this another
story? If it is, then I might distinguish it
from other possible stories by the extent of
its coherence (to me). Logic is
the epitome of coherence, isn't it?</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"> </font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3">On Tue, 6 Nov
2018, 19:51 Pedro C. Marijuan <<a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
wrote:</font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3">Dear FIS
Colleagues,<br>
<br>
Commenting first on Xueshan, agreeing with
him in several remarks, but
disagreeing on why "firms" or even
"societies" should be
denied the genuine communication
capability? The communication, quite
massive,
among the former generates conventional
markets, stock markets, futures
markets, etc. Firms have "closure" in
several senses (legal,
administrative, productive, personnel) and
engage in cooperation, competition,
"predation" etc. Precisely it is one of
the most curious
scenarios of emergence about
problem-solving derived from social
information:
most of our present world-economy. These
days we read about the
Chinese-American "commercial war"; it is
another instance where two
clearly identifiable partners send
signals, communications, etc. about
each-other commercial behavior. Future
world supremacy is at the stake... In my
opinion we can learn quite interesting
things from each of these emerging
informational
arenas.<br>
<br>
Joseph made interesting points. My
personal trouble with LIR is that it has
been mostly thought concerning the logic
of the physical, of the inanimate,
plus relatively easy instances of
self-organization. In its present
formulation
it says relatively little about the
conditions of complexity in life, how
living entities must behave and cooperate
to produce the emergence of new
instances of organized "closure". However
I think that symmetry,
balance of opposites, symmetry breaking
& restoration, where LIR views can
be engaged, are very meaningful concerning
the massive organization of cellular
signaling--but who can advance that
synthetic job? Herein the parallel with
synthesizing social narratives can be of
some interest. It has been my main
concern along this discussion...<br>
<br>
I have not entered yet into synthesizing
the contents of Booker's work
(remember: The Seven Basic Plots). It is
quite difficult a job, and an extra
impediment for the task has been the kind
suggestion by Malcolm (offline) to
confront it with James Bonnet (Stealing
Fire from the Gods, 2006). So, it will
take an extra time. In any case, if the
life cycle, or life course, or life
arch, as lived in a series of (socially
interesting) circumstances is the
fundamental content of all stories, of all
narratives, that means that we are
handling an inner schema (a composite of
many other lower level schemes) of how
life stories have to flow, and we pay
singular attention to violations of
expectations (Loet's?), within a curious
economy of information, redundancy,
etc. "Where is the story?" we ask when
someone is boring us with a
trite narrative. This violation of
expectations may connect with humor and
with
"the news"... but the story would get too
confusing now. <br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
--Pedro <br>
<br>
El 05/11/2018 a las 6:42, Xueshan Yan
escribió:</font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
type="cite" class="m_3343927077071372983cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Dear Colleagues,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Let</span></font><font
face="DengXian">’</font><span
lang="EN-US">s return to
the core theme of narrative/story of
this session--a very valuable direction
in
information studies. Here I would like
provide some historical achievements
which were developed by other related
disciplines and give some comments
related to Pedro</span><font
face="DengXian">’</font><span
lang="EN-US">s early consideration. If
no evident specifications, the default
effectiveness only be limited to human
atmosphere.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><b><font
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US">1. Surface Structure of
Information: Word, Sentence,
Discourse</span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">According to the
linguistic research in the
past decades, the surface structure of
information can be divided into three
levels: word, sentence, and discourse
(also called text). Some people think
that clause and paragraph should be
added to them, but they are not
generally
recognized because they have not put
forward effective results. For a long
time, word and sentence research has
achieved almost perfect theoretical
results, while discourse research is
still under exploration. The most
famous
work about discourse research formed
by Teun A. van Dijk of the Netherlands,
whose theory of News Schemata which he
put forward in 1986 reached the peak
in
this aspect. Since then, the whole
discourse theory has never got
important
achievement <font color="black">until
today.</font>
Word, Sentence, and Discourse are the
surface structure of information
(meaning) existing as physical sign
form.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><b><font
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US">2. Narrative: A Special
Discourse</span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3" color="black"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US">Narration
is a kind of describing behavior of
information,</span></font><span
lang="EN-US">
and its result is narrative. Narrative
is a special discourse, which focuses on
the description of one or more events or
others. It is mainly applied in the
humanities, especially in literature and
history. Natural science and
engineering science generally do not use
this concept. The soul of a narrative
is that it must have story. A story is a
narrative that was constituted of one
or more figures' thoughts, words, and
actions as the main line. The record of
one's daily life could be narrative and
there is not always story in it. The
yearbook records everything but there is
not <font color="black">necessarily a
story there. Story is the basic
premise of
novel, ballad, lullaby, opera, song,
music, painting, etc. The most typical
study of story is carried out by
folklorists, psychologists, and
linguists,
such as Smith Thompson, Jean Mandler,
David Rumelhart and others, they have
put
forward the theory of motif, plot, and
story grammar in 1970s, but their
research is still difficult now.</font>
Behind Discourse, Narrative, and
Story, there are complex and interesting
information issues.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><b><font
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US">3. Stratification and
Reduction: An Inevitable Way to
Develop Information Studies</span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">In a 2002 post, Pedro
summed up an
interesting idea: Cell-Brain-Firm, it
also be expressed as
Cell-Brain-Society
sometime. It implied information <font
color="black">stratification
existentialities and could make
people separate information research
on cell
from information research on
society. However, this idea has
received little
attention from our FIS/UTI circle
afterwards. In my opinion, the
problem
perhaps is that the consideration is
defective at logical level. I have
coined
two concepts in my research, one is
"Inforware" and the other is
"Communication-dipole" which can
explain this problem. An Inforware
is a physical object consisting of
Information, Sign, and Substrate. A
pair of</font>
Inforwares that can communicates each
other is called a
Communication-dipole.
An Inforware can holds information,
and a Communication-dipole can
transmits
information.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Analyzing Pedro's idea,
both of cell and
brain are organism, they can be
consider as Inforwares and of course
can form
Communication-dipole to communicate
each other, but a society cannot be
consider as Inforware and we cannot
find an <font color="black">opponent</font>
to communicate with unless we
consider it as an Inforware and can
communicate with other society as a
whole,
such as a panda society or a rice
society. So, if Pedro agrees, I would
like to
revise the Cell-Brain-Firm idea to
Molecule-Cell-Brain idea (of course,
should
plus elementary particle and
mechanical product in somewhere of
it.). All
Molecules, Cells, and Brains can be
consider as Inforwares and of course
can
form Communication-dipoles to
communicate. Information research
inside brain is
a biology task, and outside brain is a
(Human/Social) Informatics task.
Stratification and Reduction analysis
is the way to develop information
studies
inevitably in the future.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">(The above discussions
have been described
in detail in my book <i>Information
Science:
Concept, System and Perspective</i>,
(2016)).</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Best wishes to all,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.65pt;line-height:17.0pt"><font
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Xueshan</span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2"
face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font
size="2" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US"> <a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joseph
Brenner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 1,
2018
4:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] FW:
Anticipatory
Systems. Vicious Coherence</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">Dear Pedro and All,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">Despite the promising
start, I think we are indeed missing a
central element and more importantly
its function, which may not be to
bring
coherence as such but a proper view of
the co-existence and co-operation of
coherence and incoherence/decoherence,
consistency and inconsistency,
coincidence and decoincidence,
certitude and incertitude. In a
world/context
where we are confronted daily with the
vicious coherence of a quasi-fascist
system, not taking it into account
would make the FIS discussion worse
than
incorrect; it would make it
irrelevant.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">The tools to formally
capture at least the part of living
cyclical processes that can be so
‘captured’ (binary concept,
again) may look quite differently from
those we are used to. I have suggested
that the dances and rhythms – to use
Pedro’s excellent image
– can be not modelled but described by
reference to a contradictorial
dynamics of motion from actuality to
potentiality and back plus a basis for
emergence. As simply as I can put
them, here are some further things I
believe
need to be addressed as a consequence:</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:53.4pt"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">1.</span></font><font
size="1" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">
</span></font><font color="navy"><span
style="color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Simple
references to cycles and cyclicity,
ignoring the sinusoidal development of
natural phenomena, which suggest a
return to an identical point on the
curve,
should be avoided.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:53.4pt"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">2.</span></font><font
size="1" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">
</span></font><font color="navy"><span
style="color:navy" lang="EN-GB">It
should be
obvious to Karl and others that an
alternative to “classical Wittgenstein
logic” exists, namely Logic in
Reality, but its explanatory capacity
has
simply been ignored. Why? My
discussion of a logic for macroscopic
processes
can be found in a recent Physics <i>arXiv
</i>article.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:53.4pt"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">3.</span></font><font
size="1" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">
</span></font><font color="navy"><span
style="color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Pedro’s
point about ‘multi-time’ has also been
addressed in my logical
system, basically, by suggesting a
more interactive relation between time
and
space than is possible in classical
mechanics. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:53.4pt"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">4.</span></font><font
size="1" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">
</span></font><font color="navy"><span
style="color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Karl,
your
formulation, in my humble opinion,
includes another error if my point of
view
is at least accepted for discussion:
you have intuition and instinct on one
side, and ‘science’ and certitude on
the other. The statement of
the problem in dichotomous terms is
part of the problem.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:53.4pt"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">5.</span></font><font
size="1" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">
</span></font><font color="navy"><span
style="color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Unless
the
cases are constructed and limited,
attempting to foretell the future is a
Promethean objective which will bring
its own punishment.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">I look forward, still, to
some minimum exchange on the
above. Cheers,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"
color="navy"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB">Joseph (Epimetheus)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"
face="Arial" color="navy"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
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size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">
<hr size="3" align="center"
width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"> </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"></span></font><font
size="1" face="Arial" color="#41424e"><span
style="font-size:6.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#41424e" lang="EN-US"> </span></font></p>
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<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Fis mailing list</span></font></pre>
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<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><font size="3"> </font></p>
<pre cols="72"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">-- </span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">-------------------------------------------------</span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Pedro C. Marijuán</span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group</span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a></span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a></span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">------------------------------------------------- </span></font></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
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