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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Dear Pedro, Dear Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Thank you for your references to
Logic in Reality. Before commenting on my work, I would like to note that no
references in this thread have been yet made to the extensive work on
anticipation by Rosen of course, and more recently by Daniel Dubois in Liège
and Roberto Poli in Trento. Roberto has been leading a major European
initiative in the field of anticipatory systems. Although he and I do not always
agree, no serious study of anticipation should ignore his work.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>I am very glad to be able to
state here that Stéphane Lupasco, from whose logical system LIR was derived,
gives a major place to biological, cognitive phenomena, including consciousness,
and social systems, including his work on ethics. By good fortune, I have just
been able to publish the first paper in English on the Lupasco theory of
consciousness (in a <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Newsletter </span></i>of
the American Philosophical Association.) With this work fresh in mind, I am in
a good position to suggest, taking up Mark’s point, that it is LIR and <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>not</span></i> standard bivalent logic that expresses
the dynamic structure of consciousness and experience. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>As it turns out, the first paper
I published was entitled “<i><span style='font-style:italic'>Process </span></i>in
Reality”. I have emphasized process in all subsequent work and not only
criticized “easy cases of self-organization” but the major errors
that can be made by assigning self-organization an exclusive role, without
prior and accompanying hetero-organization, that is, the necessary external or
prior input.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Coming back to Mark, I find very
intriguing his thought that logic may be a metasystem of itself. As background,
I have claimed that Logic in Reality is also a metalogic, in that it discusses
how logic “is to be done”, and further that its logical and
metalogical characteristics are not separated or separable. I further wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The metalogical</span></font><span lang=EN-GB> properties of LIR are thus of an entirely different kind, since it is
based on a view of nature that does not consider fundamental either to the
abstract entities of pure classical propositional or mathematical logic or the
anthropomorphic ontological concepts of phenomenology. The most fundamental
metalogical principle of LIR is that of opposition or antagonism</span><span lang=EN-GB>, without which, in this view, nothing could exist (see the next
Section). This is, therefore, at the same time the most fundamental
metaphysical principle</span><span lang=EN-GB> of LIR.<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>On this basis, I could say that <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>my</span></i> Logic in Reality as a system could be a
metasystem of itself, without conflation. But what is the general relation
between a system and a metasystem? I would welcome some further thoughts by
Mark on this point in terms of a definition of a metasystem that we can all
discuss. But please let me again distinguish between standard logic and LIR: it
is the former that is the epitome of coherence. LIR does not require absolute
coherence as a necessary property in a world that is <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>both</span></i> coherent and incoherent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>I will comment later on Xueshan’s
concept of Inforware. I guess I hesitated a bit when I read that reduction-analysis
was a key part of the strategy for development of information studies, but,
Xueshan, “let’s talk”. There is also a very delicate question
of the usage here of the English terms ‘inevitable’ and ‘inevitably’.
It is not incorrect but in my mind just slightly ‘off’ in a
negative sense. Perhaps an alternate term which someone or my unconscious might
suggest would be better. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Best wishes to all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Mark Johnson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> dimanche, 11 novembre 2018
17:31<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> fis<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] : Anticipatory
Systems</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dear all,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>Whilst appreciating the opportunity to think about narrative
(and the aspect of narrative which interests me most is coherence) I have been
worrying about less positive ways in which stories can be powerful. Every nasty
ideological regime in history has a story to tell to defend itself. My mind was
drawn to Popper's "The Poverty of historicism". He's right isn't he?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>This is where I disagree with Pedro about logic and
complexity. We tend to make stories about things we don't understand - and
complexity is one of those things: a story is a metasystem of something. If we
are free to choose our metasystem, we are free to manipulate others. I am tempted
to say logic is not a narrative but it is revealed through narrative's
structure. More importantly, <font color=navy><span style='color:navy'>logic </span></font>may
be a metasystem of itself. That implies that logic (and maybe LIR) is a
fundamental expression of the structure of consciousness through which
everything else is experienced. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>Is this another story? If it is, then I might distinguish it
from other possible stories by the extent of its coherence (to me). Logic is
the epitome of coherence, isn't it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, 19:51 Pedro C. Marijuan <<a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dear FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
Commenting first on Xueshan, agreeing with him in several remarks, but
disagreeing on why "firms" or even "societies" should be
denied the genuine communication capability? The communication, quite massive,
among the former generates conventional markets, stock markets, futures
markets, etc. Firms have "closure" in several senses (legal,
administrative, productive, personnel) and engage in cooperation, competition,
"predation" etc. Precisely it is one of the most curious
scenarios of emergence about problem-solving derived from social information:
most of our present world-economy. These days we read about the
Chinese-American "commercial war"; it is another instance where two
clearly identifiable partners send signals, communications, etc. about
each-other commercial behavior. Future world supremacy is at the stake... In my
opinion we can learn quite interesting things from each of these emerging informational
arenas.<br>
<br>
Joseph made interesting points. My personal trouble with LIR is that it has
been mostly thought concerning the logic of the physical, of the inanimate,
plus relatively easy instances of self-organization. In its present formulation
it says relatively little about the conditions of complexity in life, how
living entities must behave and cooperate to produce the emergence of new
instances of organized "closure". However I think that symmetry,
balance of opposites, symmetry breaking & restoration, where LIR views can
be engaged, are very meaningful concerning the massive organization of cellular
signaling--but who can advance that synthetic job? Herein the parallel with
synthesizing social narratives can be of some interest. It has been my main
concern along this discussion...<br>
<br>
I have not entered yet into synthesizing the contents of Booker's work
(remember: The Seven Basic Plots). It is quite difficult a job, and an extra
impediment for the task has been the kind suggestion by Malcolm (offline) to
confront it with James Bonnet (Stealing Fire from the Gods, 2006). So, it will
take an extra time. In any case, if the life cycle, or life course, or life
arch, as lived in a series of (socially interesting) circumstances is the
fundamental content of all stories, of all narratives, that means that we are
handling an inner schema (a composite of many other lower level schemes) of how
life stories have to flow, and we pay singular attention to violations of
expectations (Loet's?), within a curious economy of information, redundancy,
etc. "Where is the story?" we ask when someone is boring us with a
trite narrative. This violation of expectations may connect with humor and with
"the news"... but the story would get too confusing now. <br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
--Pedro <br>
<br>
El 05/11/2018 a las 6:42, Xueshan Yan escribió:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dear Colleagues,</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Let</span></font><font face=DengXian><span
style='font-family:DengXian'>’</span></font><span lang=EN-US>s return to
the core theme of narrative/story of this session--a very valuable direction in
information studies. Here I would like provide some historical achievements
which were developed by other related disciplines and give some comments
related to Pedro</span><font face=DengXian><span style='font-family:DengXian'>’</span></font><span
lang=EN-US>s early consideration. If no evident specifications, the default
effectiveness only be limited to human atmosphere.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>1. Surface Structure of
Information: Word, Sentence, Discourse</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>According to the linguistic research in the
past decades, the surface structure of information can be divided into three
levels: word, sentence, and discourse (also called text). Some people think
that clause and paragraph should be added to them, but they are not generally
recognized because they have not put forward effective results. For a long
time, word and sentence research has achieved almost perfect theoretical
results, while discourse research is still under exploration. The most famous
work about discourse research formed by Teun A. van Dijk of the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Netherlands</st1:place></st1:country-region>,
whose theory of News Schemata which he put forward in 1986 reached the peak in
this aspect. Since then, the whole discourse theory has never got important
achievement <font color=black><span style='color:black'>until today.</span></font>
Word, Sentence, and Discourse are the surface structure of information
(meaning) existing as physical sign form.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>2. Narrative: A Special
Discourse</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Narration
is a kind of describing behavior of information,</span></font><span lang=EN-US>
and its result is narrative. Narrative is a special discourse, which focuses on
the description of one or more events or others. It is mainly applied in the
humanities, especially in literature and history. Natural science and
engineering science generally do not use this concept. The soul of a narrative
is that it must have story. A story is a narrative that was constituted of one
or more figures' thoughts, words, and actions as the main line. The record of
one's daily life could be narrative and there is not always story in it. The
yearbook records everything but there is not <font color=black><span
style='color:black'>necessarily a story there. Story is the basic premise of
novel, ballad, lullaby, opera, song, music, painting, etc. The most typical
study of story is carried out by folklorists, psychologists, and linguists,
such as Smith Thompson, Jean Mandler, David Rumelhart and others, they have put
forward the theory of motif, plot, and story grammar in 1970s, but their
research is still difficult now.</span></font> Behind Discourse, Narrative, and
Story, there are complex and interesting information issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>3. Stratification and
Reduction: An Inevitable Way to Develop Information Studies</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>In a 2002 post, Pedro summed up an
interesting idea: Cell-Brain-Firm, it also be expressed as Cell-Brain-Society
sometime. It implied information <font color=black><span style='color:black'>stratification
existentialities and could make people separate information research on cell
from information research on society. However, this idea has received little
attention from our FIS/UTI circle afterwards. In my opinion, the problem
perhaps is that the consideration is defective at logical level. I have coined
two concepts in my research, one is "Inforware" and the other is
"Communication-dipole" which can explain this problem. An Inforware
is a physical object consisting of Information, Sign, and Substrate. A pair of</span></font>
Inforwares that can communicates each other is called a Communication-dipole.
An Inforware can holds information, and a Communication-dipole can transmits
information.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Analyzing Pedro's idea, both of cell and
brain are organism, they can be consider as Inforwares and of course can form
Communication-dipole to communicate each other, but a society cannot be
consider as Inforware and we cannot find an <font color=black><span
style='color:black'>opponent</span></font> to communicate with unless we
consider it as an Inforware and can communicate with other society as a whole,
such as a panda society or a rice society. So, if Pedro agrees, I would like to
revise the Cell-Brain-Firm idea to Molecule-Cell-Brain idea (of course, should
plus elementary particle and mechanical product in somewhere of it.). All
Molecules, Cells, and Brains can be consider as Inforwares and of course can
form Communication-dipoles to communicate. Information research inside brain is
a biology task, and outside brain is a (Human/Social) Informatics task.
Stratification and Reduction analysis is the way to develop information studies
inevitably in the future.</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>(The above discussions have been described
in detail in my book <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Information Science:
Concept, System and Perspective</span></i>, (2016)).</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:20.0pt;line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Best wishes to all,</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.65pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:17.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Xueshan</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Calibri><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'> <a
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Joseph Brenner<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 1, 2018
4:53 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Fis] FW: Anticipatory
Systems. Vicious Coherence</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'>Dear Pedro and All,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'>Despite the promising start, I think we are indeed missing a
central element and more importantly its function, which may not be to bring
coherence as such but a proper view of the co-existence and co-operation of
coherence and incoherence/decoherence, consistency and inconsistency,
coincidence and decoincidence, certitude and incertitude. In a world/context
where we are confronted daily with the vicious coherence of a quasi-fascist
system, not taking it into account would make the FIS discussion worse than
incorrect; it would make it irrelevant.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'>The tools to formally capture at least the part of living
cyclical processes that can be so ‘captured’ (binary concept,
again) may look quite differently from those we are used to. I have suggested
that the dances and rhythms – to use Pedro’s excellent image
– can be not modelled but described by reference to a contradictorial
dynamics of motion from actuality to potentiality and back plus a basis for
emergence. As simply as I can put them, here are some further things I believe
need to be addressed as a consequence:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:53.4pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>1.</span></font><font size=1
color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;color:navy'>
</span></font><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'>Simple
references to cycles and cyclicity, ignoring the sinusoidal development of
natural phenomena, which suggest a return to an identical point on the curve,
should be avoided.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:53.4pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>2.</span></font><font size=1
color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;color:navy'>
</span></font><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'>It should be
obvious to Karl and others that an alternative to “classical Wittgenstein
logic” exists, namely Logic in Reality, but its explanatory capacity has
simply been ignored. Why? My discussion of a logic for macroscopic processes
can be found in a recent Physics <i><span style='font-style:italic'>arXiv </span></i>article.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:53.4pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>3.</span></font><font size=1
color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;color:navy'>
</span></font><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'>Pedro’s
point about ‘multi-time’ has also been addressed in my logical
system, basically, by suggesting a more interactive relation between time and
space than is possible in classical mechanics. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:53.4pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>4.</span></font><font size=1
color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;color:navy'>
</span></font><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'>Karl, your
formulation, in my humble opinion, includes another error if my point of view
is at least accepted for discussion: you have intuition and instinct on one
side, and ‘science’ and certitude on the other. The statement of
the problem in dichotomous terms is part of the problem.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:53.4pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>5.</span></font><font size=1
color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;color:navy'>
</span></font><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'>Unless the
cases are constructed and limited, attempting to foretell the future is a
Promethean objective which will bring its own punishment.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'>I look forward, still, to some minimum exchange on the
above. Cheers,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:navy'>Joseph (Epimetheus)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank"></a></span></font><font size=1 color="#41424e" face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:6.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#41424E'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<fieldset class="m_-66860618433241696mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Fis mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></blockquote>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<pre cols=72><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Pedro C. Marijuán<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>------------------------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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