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style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Dear Mark and Colleagues,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Very nice “simple question”: “Is information
physical?”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I agree that “letters, electromagnetic waves and
actually all physical objects are only carriers of
information”.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The brain is carrier of information, too.
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Now, I think, what we need to clear is another “simple
question” closely interrelated to yours:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Does the information exist without the
carrier?</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">In other words, can the color, speed, weigh,
temperature, time, etc., exist without objects which these characteristics
belong to and may be measured by other objects. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">To understand more clearly, let see the case of
“time”.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Does the time really exist?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
size=4>Does the time exist</FONT> w</SPAN>ithout real regular processes which we
may reflect and compare?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The time is </FONT></SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><SPAN lang=EN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma; mso-ansi-language: en">falling
drops of water</SPAN><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'>,
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-ansi-language: en"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">the movement of the pendulum, etc.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">One may say, the time is information about all these
processes.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">OK! But, if these processes do not exist, will we have
“time”?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I think, we have a question in two interrelated
explanations: </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">- Is information physical?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">- Does the information exist without the
carrier?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Friendly greetings</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style='COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: tahoma'><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Krassimir</FONT></SPAN></P></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'><FONT
face=Calibri><FONT size=4><B></B></FONT></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'><FONT
face=Calibri><FONT size=4><B></B></FONT></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'><FONT
face=Calibri><FONT size=4><B></B></FONT></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'><FONT
face=Calibri><FONT size=4><B>From:</B> </FONT></FONT><A
title=mburgin@math.ucla.edu href="mailto:mburgin@math.ucla.edu"><FONT size=4
face=Calibri>Burgin, Mark</FONT></A><FONT size=4 face=Calibri>
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
class=shorttext><SPAN lang=EN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-bidi-font-family: arial; mso-ansi-language: en; mso-ascii-font-family: calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: calibri"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" color=#222222>the movement of
the pendulum</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-TOP: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
class=shorttext><SPAN lang=EN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-bidi-font-family: arial; mso-ansi-language: en; mso-ascii-font-family: calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: calibri"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" color=#222222>falling drops
of water</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 16pt; mso-ascii-font-family: calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: calibri"></SPAN></P>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:47 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] Is information physical?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<P>Dear Colleagues,</P>
<P>I would like to suggest the new topic for discussion</P>
<P>
Is information physical?<BR></P>
<P>My opinion is presented below:<BR></P>
<P>
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<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Why some people erroneously think
that information is physical<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The main reason to think that
information is physical is the strong belief of many people, especially,
scientists that there is only physical reality, which is studied by science. At
the same time, people encounter something that they call
information.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>When people receive a letter, they
comprehend that it is information because with the letter they receive
information. The letter is physical, i.e., a physical object. As a result,
people start thinking that information is physical. When people receive an
e-mail, they comprehend that it is information because with the e-mail they
receive information. The e-mail comes to the computer in the form of
electromagnetic waves, which are physical. As a result, people start thinking
even more that information is physical.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, letters, electromagnetic
waves and actually all physical objects are only carriers or containers of
information.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>To understand this better, let us
consider a textbook. Is possible to say that this book is knowledge? Any
reasonable person will tell that the textbook contains knowledge but is not
knowledge itself. In the same way, the textbook contains information but is not
information itself. The same is true for letters, e-mails, electromagnetic waves
and other physical objects because all of them only contain information but are
not information. For instance, as we know, different letters can contain the
same information. Even if we make an identical copy of a letter or any other
text, then the letter and its copy will be different physical objects (physical
things) but they will contain the same information.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Information belongs to a different
(non-physical) world of knowledge, data and similar essences. In spite of this,
information can act on physical objects (physical bodies) and this action also
misleads people who think that information is physical.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>One more misleading property of
information is that people can measure it. This brings an erroneous assumption
that it is possible to measure only physical essences. Naturally, this brings
people to the erroneous conclusion that information is physical. However,
measuring information is essentially different than measuring physical
quantities, i.e., weight. There are no “scales” that measure information. Only
human intellect can do this.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Courier
new"'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is possible to find more
explanations that information is not physical in the general theory of
information. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>Sincerely,<BR>Mark Burgin<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>On 4/24/2018 10:46 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:19330aa9-0909-d588-732f-a71068769dba@aragon.es
type="cite">Dear FIS Colleagues,<BR><BR>A very interesting discussion theme
has been proposed by Mark Burgin --he will post at his early convenience.
<BR>Thanks are due to Alberto for his "dataism" piece. Quite probably we will
need to revisit that theme, as it is gaining increasing momentum in present
"information societies", in science as well as in everyday life...<BR>Thanks
also to Sung for his interesting viewpoint and references.<BR><BR>Best wishes
to all,<BR>--Pedro<FONT size=+2> <BR></FONT><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" moz-do-not-send="true">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</A>
------------------------------------------------- </PRE>
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