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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks Plamen, very interesting
references and comments. There are many new avenues opening around
data, from nasty ones (recent politics) to the economic,
biomedical and scientific in general. It is a very important
"information" theme of our time. Perhaps I disagree that deep
learning could not develop similar processes to what we call
intuition and analogy. If we situate ourselves within one
particular neuron of our nervous system, those intuitions and
analogies passing by are but more of the same: electro-molecular
mechanisms and topology. Plus "something" else, of course... Let
us continue the discussion after Easter vacations.<br>
Best--Pedro<br>
<br>
El 27/03/2018 a las 14:25, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov escribió:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMBikj6F8iscrgZbjTxG5DrjLxb6fqLhUC8Q8EmMuHnqKTUFFA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Dear Alberto, Pedro and All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I could not follow this discussion in the past 3 weeks
since I was engaged in other activities, but again ß with
respect to my other question regarding the value of the FIS
exchange as a forum and virtual currency, please find below
two articles (December 2017) that could inspire your
imagination:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><a
href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-08589-4"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nature.com/<wbr>articles/d41586-017-08589-4</a></div>
<div style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><a
href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/581948/EPRS_IDA%282017%29581948_EN.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.europarl.europa.eu/<wbr>RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/<wbr>581948/EPRS_IDA(2017)581948_<wbr>EN.pdf</a><br>
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<div>I believe that data-driven research is just a fashion and
that new commercial trends like cryptocurrency technology
will be driven by regulation to a different direction,
namely the one that is the discussed in the articles above.
Indeed, the whole idea is not new at all. I actually found
myself as the inventor of a precursor solution to blockchain
back in 1999. And this idea alone stems from analogies I
have driven from active networks and attributed graph
grammars back in the 1980ies..., long before there was an
Internet Protocol at all. So, honestly, I do not believe
that data will be the top of the knowledge pyramid, and to
have data we create the models and invent theories also by
analogy and intuition, the methods that folks like Poincare
and Einstein were working with pen and paper on. Computers
and AI/ML will remain just tools, but they will never become
wise as people or even animals. By the way, we are planning
another special issue on Integral Biomathics in 2019 in the
footsteps of the previous ones in 2013, 2015 and 2017 --</div>
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<p><span
lang="EN-US"><font
face="georgia,
serif"><a
href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/131"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">2017 JPBMB Focused Issue on
Integral
Biomathics:
The Necessary
Conjunction of
Western and
Eastern
Thought
Traditions for
Exploring the
Nature of Mind
and Life</a></font></span><font
face="georgia,
serif"> </font> *</p>
<p><span
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free
promotional
access to all
focused issue
articles until
June 20th,
2018</span> </p>
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<div>and
devoted to
animal and
natural
intelligence.
I just wish to
inform you
earlier about
this. An
official call
will be
distributed in
this forum
later this
year.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div>I wish
you a Happy
Easter!</div>
<div><br>
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<div>All the
best.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Plamen</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 11:46 PM,
Alberto J. Schuhmacher <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:ajimenez@iisaragon.es" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ajimenez@iisaragon.es</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Dear
Plamen, Pedro and Collegues,</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">I
am enjoying a lot this forum. </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">I
absolutely foresee Scientific Blockchain as a
continuously growing list of scientific records and
contributions (blocks) linked and secured using
cryptography, somehow a kind of peer reviewed
process. Would you be able to publish it in a
journal based on their scientific value?</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Dataist-machines
won chess players but still are learning Science,
they are completing their “Bachelor”. Their use for
biomedical applications is growing everyday. For
example, their accuracy for in biomedical imaging
diagnosis will be similar to humans soon. For other
applications, such as genetic predisposition and
health prediction/prognosis the conversion to a
fanatic dataism may abuse of “predictivity” and
forget the relevance of the organism-environment. It
will take some time for machines to complete their
“Philosophical Doctorate”. Technology could be ready
soon for data driven hypothesis but our knowledge of
fundamental aspects of life are still weak.</span></p>
<div>All the best,</div>
<div>AJ</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail-h5">
<p> </p>
<p>El 10-03-2018 21:05, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN
FERNANDEZ escribió:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
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<p>Dear Plamen and Colleagues,</p>
<p>If it can be feasible, I would very much
welcome what you propose. Yes, it would be
great developing a general articulation
amongst all our exchanges. Roughly, I feel
that a fundamental nucleous of neatly
conceptualized information is still evading
us, but outside that nucleous, and somehow
emanating from it, there are different
branches and sub-branches in quite different
elaboration degrees and massively
crisscrossing and intermingling their
contents. A six-pointed star, for instance,
radiating from its inner fusion the
computational, physical, biological, neuronal,
social, and economic. The six big branches in
perfect periferic colussion and confusion.
Could a blockchain, along its full develpment
in time, represent a fundamental cartography
of the originating fusion nucleous? </p>
<p>About dataism enchantment, well, too many
times we have been said "look, finally this is
the great, definitive scientific
approach"--behaviorism, artificial
intelleigence, artifficial catastrophe &
complexity theory, and so on. Let us wait and
see. Welcome in the extent to which it really
responds to unanswered questions. And let us
be aware of the technocratic lore it seems to
drag.</p>
<p>This was my second cent for the week.</p>
<p>best--Pedro</p>
<p> </p>
<p>On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:30:01 +0100 "Dr. Plamen
L. Simeonov" wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<p dir="ltr">These are wise words, Pedro.</p>
<div>What I was meaning with my
previous posting on FIS was that there is a
foundational emerging technology -
blockchain - that could give us, scientists
organized in fora like FIS, IB, IS4IS etc.
to become a valuable currency of the future.
I am speaking not about finances or
resources like petrol, gold, water, etc.
What we are doing all the time with the
exchange of ideas online are in fact
transactions, often with huge potential. Why
do not try to elevate them to the level that
they deserve?
<p> </p>
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<div>I am not
sure if the
FIS forum
members can
follow me. Can
you?
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>All the
best.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Plamen</p>
<p> </p>
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<div>______________________________<wbr>______________________________
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<p class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 8, 2018
at 6:15 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN
FERNANDEZ <span><<a
href="https://mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
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head>
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<p>Dear Alberto,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Many thanks for the kickoff text.
I will try to produce a couple of
direct comments.</p>
<p>You have reminded me of the early
70's, when I first approached
science. A few computers had made
their entrance in the university
halls. During those years, and for
some decades to come, a new mantra
was to be ensconced: modeling,
simulations. Thanks to computers,
we had a fascinating new tool; a
mathematical machine that was
opening a new window to the world
of science, equivalent to the
telescope or the microscope in the
scientific revolution. Now, almost
50 years later, after having
provoked their own "information
revolution" it seems that
computers are more than a new
tool. Dataism coupled with
artificial intelligence, deep
learning and the other techniques,
have taken them to the command
post, so that they are becoming
direct "agents" of the scientific
progress. And this is strange.
They have already defeated masters
of chess, of go and of other
contests... are they going to
defeat scientists too? Are they
the "necessary" new lords of all
quarters of techno-social
complexity?</p>
<p>You have depicted very cogently
the new panorama of biomedical
research, probably the mainstream,
and I wonder whether this is the
most interesting direction of
advancement. In some sense, yes
(or no!), as it is where big
biomed companies, technological
firms, and management
establishment are pointing at. It
is easy to complain that they are
leaving aside the integrative
vision, the meaningful synthesis
that facilitate our comprehension,
the "soul" in the machine... But
we have been complaining in this
way at least during the last two
decades. So I really do not know.
Fashions in science come and go:
maybe all of this is a temporary
illusion. Or a taste of the
science of the future.</p>
<p>In any case, it was nice hearing
from a biomedical researcher in
the wet lab.</p>
<p>Best wishes--Pedro</p>
<p> </p>
<p>On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 21:23:01
+0100 "Alberto J. Schuhmacher"
wrote:</p>
blockquote>
<p>Dear FIS Colleagues,</p>
<p>I very much appreciate this
opportunity to discuss with all of
you.</p>
<p>My mentors and science teachers
taught me that Science had a
method, rules and procedures that
should be followed and pursued
rigorously and with perseverance.
The scientific research needed to
be preceded by one or several
hypotheses that should be
subjected to validation or
refutation through experiments
designed and carried out in a
laboratory. The Oxford
Dictionaries Online defines the
scientific method as "a method or
procedure that has characterized
natural science since the 17th
century, consisting in systematic
observation, measurement, and
experiment, and the formulation,
testing, and modification of
hypotheses". Experiments are a
procedure designed to test
hypotheses. Experiments are an
important tool of the scientific
method.</p>
<p>In our case, molecular,
personalized and precision
medicine aims to anticipate the
future development of diseases in
a specific individual through
molecular markers registered in
the genome, variome, metagenome,
metabolome or in any of the
multiple "omes" that make up the
present "omics" language of
current Biology.</p>
<p>The possibilities of applying
these methodologies to the
prevention and treatment of
diseases have increased
exponentially with the rise of a
new religion, <em>Dataism</em>,
whose foundations are inspired by
scientific agnosticism, a way of
thinking that seems classical but
applied to research, it hides a
profound revolution.</p>
<p>Dataism arises from the recent
human desire to collect and
analyze data, data and more data,
data of everything and data for
everything-from the most banal
social issues to those that decide
the rhythms of life and death.
"Information flow" is one the
"supreme values" of this religion.
The next floods will be of data as
we can see just looking at any
electronic window.</p>
<p>The recent development of
gigantic clinical and biological
databases, and the concomitant
progress of the computational
capacity to handle and analyze
these growing tides of information
represent the best substrate for
the progress of Dataism, which in
turn has managed to provide a
solid content material to an
always-evanescent scientific
agnosticism.</p>
<p>On many occasions the
establishment of correlative
observations seems to be
sufficient to infer about the
relevance of a certain factor in
the development of some human
pathologies. It seems that we are
heading towards a path in which
research, instead of being driven
by hypotheses confirmed
experimentally, in the near future
experimental hypotheses themselves
will arise from the observation of
data of previously performed
experiments. Are we facing the end
of the wet lab? Is Dataism the end
of classical hypothesis-driven
research (and the beginning of
data-correlation-driven research)?</p>
<p>Deep learning is based on
learning data representations, as
opposed to task-specific
algorithms. Learning can be
supervised, semi-supervised or
unsupervised. Deep learning models
are loosely related to information
processing and communication
patterns in a biological nervous
system, such as neural coding that
attempts to define a relationship
between various stimuli and
associated neuronal responses in
the brain. Deep learning
architectures such as deep neural
networks, deep belief networks and
recurrent neural networks have
been applied to fields including
computer vision, audio
recognition, speech recognition,
machine translation, natural
language processing, social
network filtering, bioinformatics
and drug design, where they have
produced results comparable to and
in some cases superior to human
experts. Will be
data-correlation-driven research
the new scientific method for
unsupervised deep learning
machines<em>? </em>Will computers
became fundamentalists of <em>Dataism</em>?</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>AJ</p>
p>
<p>---</p>
<div
class="gmail-m_-5591117275447396333m_-643630356559670077pre"
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"><span><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
Alberto J. Schuhmacher, PhD.</span><br>
<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
Head, Molecular Oncology Group</span><br>
<br>
<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
Aragon Health Research
Institute (IIS Aragón)</span><br>
<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
Biomedical Research Center of
Aragon (CIBA)</span><br>
</span><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
Avda. Juan Bosco 13, 50009
Zaragoza (Spain)</span> br><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
email: <a
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"
href="https://mailto:ajimenez@iisaragon.es"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
ajimenez@iisaragon.es</a></span><br>
<span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
Phone: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">(+34)
637939901</a></span>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
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