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<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear FIS Colleagues,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The main result of our paper “Data versus Information” is the
understanding that the data and information are different (external and internal
kinds of reflection for subjective consciousness), i.e. "Information = data +
something in and by consciousness"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>After publishing the paper, Arturo wrote an important remark
and I promise to answer in this letter. In private conversation we had discussed
some aspects. The conversation was interesting but it is not available for the
FIS-list and I have no permission to publish it. Because of this I will use
abstract form of questions (Q) and answers (A). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear Arturo, I apologize in advance but I hope there is
nothing bad in this and it will be useful. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The remark of Arturo was: I'm just annoyed that the most
represented position among FISers, i.e., that information is an objective,
quantitative, physical measure linked to informational entropy, has not been
taken into account at all. After all our efforts to maintain our firm
position, we have been censored.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(A): Usually we say “we collect
information” measuring different real features – temperature, distance, weigh,
etc. Scientists from physics do this permanently.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The methodical error here is that really we collect
data.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>After processing the data in the consciousness, the
information may be created in it. Reflections (data) exist everywhere, but
information exists only in consciousness. It is important that information in
the consciousness of one subject is external for another, i.e. it is data for
him/her.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Yes, I know that many people believe in the opposite, but
still there are no scientific basics this believing to become scientific
theory.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I am mathematician who had worked in the institute of
mathematics more than 40 years and, in particular, I have taught probability and
statistics. I absolutely clearly know (and every good mathematician knows!) that
the probabilities are a human model and do not exist in the reality. Because of
this, all definitions of information based on probability are the same what we
had published in the paper. This kind of information exits only in the concrete
human consciousness! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The rest is data; sometimes called: "statistical
data".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(Q): Statistics is so
important, that we can quantify the standpoint of our reality, i.e., quantum
mechanics, just through statistical tools. If you negate statistics in the study
of reality, you fully destroy the medicine, the scientific method and the
prospective and retrospective studies. It is totally absurd to negate the
importance of statistics. I'm sorry, but yours is just a metaphysical approach
to scientific problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(A): Yes, I agree that the
statistics is very important and useful. But we discuss "what is the
information?" and not "is the statistics important or not?".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Only what I say is that the statistics is pure humans'
activity. By processing statistical data we may predict many events. But this
not excludes humans'. Computer prosthesis of our brains does not change the
situation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Animals do not process statistical data and do not compute
probabilities but very well process data which they receive via their
receptors.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In the same time, humans may build statistical models of
animals' activities.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Let remember that the mathematics at all ignore the subjects
in the mathematical theories but this does not means that the subjects do not
exists. One and the same formula may be computed by one student who knows how to
do this and could not be computed by other who does not know this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(Q): "Animals do not
process statistical data and do not compute probabilities "...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Do not forget that one of the most successful current brain
theory, i.e., Karl Friston's free energy principle talk of Bayesian priors
endowed in our brain...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(A): NIce! But brains had
worked this way many, many years before Bayes had invented his theories and Karl
Friston had invented the free energy principle.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>We may build many different models of the brain and all in
some aspects will be adequate to what we may measure in and from the brain. This
in one hand!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In other hand, this again confirms that all information
processes are provided just in the brain but not in the stones and in the water
somewhere outside of the brain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>So, we have the same: <FONT
size=4>"Information = data + something in and by
consciousness"</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(Q): Mmmm... the problem
is exactly your "something"... it smells of untestable, therefore useless and
metaphysical. Gimme just one testable prevision of your model!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>(A): For the first step,
please imagine that you enter in your room.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>What do you expect to see - table, chairs, maybe any friend,
etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Now, what if you passing the door will see the sea - dark blue
water with very big waves?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Your "something in consciousness" will alarm "stop, this is
not your way"!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Your brain will compare the "something in consciousness" with
incoming reflection (data) and as far is the new data to it so unexpected it
is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>*** End of conversation ***</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The important keyword in this conversation is the concept
“model”. Models are created by or reflected in the consciousness. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Because of this, my simple question is:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=4>What is the “mental model”?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=4>Friendly
greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Krassimir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>From: tozziarturo@libero.it </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 12:42 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>To: fis@listas.unizar.es ; Krassimir Markov </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Subject: Re: [Fis] The polite and high scientific style of the
posts to be published in an International Journal are OBLIGATED!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear Krassimir, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>There is a misundertanding.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I'm not discussing the quality of the Journal, nor the absence
of my name.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I'm just annoyed that the most represented position among
FISers, i.e., that information is an objective, quantitative, physical measure
linked to informational entropy, has not been taken into account at all.
After all our efforts to mantain our firm position, we have been
censored.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Il 18 febbraio 2018 alle 23.15 Krassimir Markov
<markov@foibg.com> ha scritto:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear Arturo,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>1. You are not correct and not right!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If it is written as you have seen, it is just as it
is!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Three times we kindly asked for permission but no
answer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>It is possible that my letters were rejected automatically as
spam.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>What to do? Only what we could to do was to cite posts and to
give links.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In addition, it is impossible to include long posts in a short
paper. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Because of this, they have to be shortened by author
(preferred) or by the editor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>2. The main result from our work on the paper is clearly
summarized in my final words in the paper.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>No problems, if you could not read them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>My next post next week will remember it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>3. Finally, the paper in not stenographic protocol.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Not every post is connected to the given theme and it is clear
that it could not be taken in a short paper.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The theme of discussion for the paper usually is pointed in my
“simple questions”.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If your posts will concern the discussed theme, please clearly
point this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>4. In the next discussion which will start soon, everybody is
kindly invited to take part and to be included in the future paper.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The polite and high scientific style of the posts to be
published in an International Journal are OBLIGATED!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Friendly greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Krassimir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>From: tozziarturo@libero.it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 10:58 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>To: Krassimir Markov ; fis@listas.unizar.es</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Subject: Re: [Fis] The FIS paper "Data versus Information " is
published</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear, prominent Authors,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>You write in this paper: " Several posts are not included in
the text below due to lack of permission from their authors".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I think that several post were not included in the text just
because they were too critical against the loose, flabby concepts of information
provided in this paper. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Some contributions are very interesting, but others deserve
the despising label of pseudoscience. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>On the other side, If you provide ELEVEN (more or less, I
cannot be sure, I counted it, but I lost my attention after the Greeek Gods...)
different definitions of information, how do you hope to be trusted?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Forgive me to be honest, but FIS means also harsh
discussion! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Il 18 febbraio 2018 alle 20.49 Krassimir Markov
<markov@foibg.com> ha scritto:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dear Pedro and FIS Colleagues,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I am glad to inform you that the paper which was created by a
group of FIS members is ready.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>It is published with open access in the International Journal
“Information Theories and Applications”, Volume 24, Number 4, pages
303-321.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The title of the paper is “Data versus
Information“.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>It contains a small part of FIS discussions but it is
representative how creative is the FIS society!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Many thanks to authors of the paper – more than three months
we work on the paper!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Links:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>IJ ITA Vol. 24:
http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol24/ijita-fv24.htm</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Direct link to the paper:
http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol24/ijita24-04-p01.pdf</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Friendly greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Krassimir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>Arturo Tozzi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>AA Professor Physics, University North Texas</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/ </FONT></DIV>
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