<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>-------- Mensaje reenviado --------</p>
    <div class="moz-forward-container">
      <table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0" cellpadding="0"
        cellspacing="0">
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Asunto:
            </th>
            <td>Re: [Fis] Summing up: New Year Lecture</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Fecha: </th>
            <td>Mon, 22 Jan 2018 07:02:42 -0800</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">De: </th>
            <td>JOHN TORDAY <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jtorday@ucla.edu"><jtorday@ucla.edu></a></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Para: </th>
            <td>Pedro C. Marijuan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a></td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div dir="ltr">Dear FISers, I greatly appreciate Pedro's comments
        regarding my New Year Lecture. I fully agree with his comment " That
        life's physiology is based on the conjunction of a few
        principles: neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and
        homeostasis-homeorhesis" applies to non-living states too. I did
        not intend to make that statement exclusive, and if it sounded
        like that Pedro's clarification is important. In fact have just
        published a paper entitled "Quantum Mechanics Predicts
        Evolutionary Biology" which is predicated on the hypothesis that
        self-referential self-organization is the result of
        the Singularity/Big Bang, Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics
        that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. That idea
        would apply to both evolutionary biology and to balanced
        chemical reactions alike. As for the question of the emergence
        of self-referential consciousness 'right at the beginning', I am
        in favor of that concept, as I have expressed it in a recent
        paper, entitled "From Cholesterol to Consciousness" (see
        attached) so I look forward to reading your comments about that
        idea as well, since it has the potential to fully integrate
        physics and biology in my humble opinion. <br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Pedro
          C. Marijuan <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
              <div class="m_-3976825554907599061moz-cite-prefix">Dear
                FISers,<br>
                <br>
                Going to the extreme, I think this year opening lecture
                can be summarized in three contentious points. <br>
                <br>
                1. That life's physiology is based on the conjunction of
                a few principles: neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and
                homeostasis-homeorhesis.<br>
                <br>
                2. That communication (cell signaling) is an essential
                factor in the multicellular evolution towards
                complexity.<br>
                <br>
                3. That epigenetic inheritance and the obligate
                recursion to the unicellular state become the basis of a
                new evolutionary theory.<br>
                <br>
                I disagree with point 1, as I think some nonliving
                states could also be characterized by those principles
                (eg, chemical cycles/hypercycles in marine vents, and
                other outcomes derived from "energy flows"); besides,
                some previous "info stuff" has to be in place. Then I
                completely agree with point 2, for signaling is not just
                another characteristic of the cell, it is "the"
                eukaryotic trait par excellence.  And I am curious on
                how point 3 could be further substantiated... In this
                respect I recommend the two papers that Bill sent to the
                list a few weeks ago. Do we need to postulate the
                emergence of a form of "self-referential cognition"
                right at the beginning?<br>
                Perhaps!<br>
                <br>
                All the best--Pedro<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                 <br>
                El 09/01/2018 a las 19:05, Bill escribió:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div class="m_-3976825554907599061moz-cite-prefix">Dear
                  Pedro and Colleagues, <br>
                  <br>
                  I have been following the thread of comments with
                  great interest, all of  which have all been occasioned
                  by John Torday's profound insights about the nature of
                  evolutionary development in light of the importance of
                  cell-cell signaling and molecular biology.  From the
                  comments, it is clear that there is a strong impulse
                  to seek a means of integrating the role of
                  symbiogenesis, viruses and mobile elements, multilevel
                  selection, niche construction, genomic plasticity into
                  a common narrative with an informational perspective
                  at its foundation. <br>
                      In the spirit of that line of discussion, I am
                  offering two links that discuss evolution as an
                  biologic information management system. Some of this
                  work shares direct commonality with John's, since he
                  and I are frequent collaborators.  <br>
                  <br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm"
                    target="_blank">http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/<wbr>5/2/21/htm</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X"
                    target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/<wbr>science/article/pii/<wbr>S007961071730233X</a><br>
                  <br>
                  Both of these articles can be considered as
                  complementary to Pedro's very fine article, 'How
                  prokaryotes ‘encode’ their environment: Systemic tools
                  for organizing the information flow', which is in
                  BioSystems. <br>
                  <br>
                  I am grateful to John for inviting me to participate
                  in the forum and to Pedro for encouraging me to share
                  these manuscripts. <br>
                  <br>
                  Best regards, <br>
                  Bill<br>
                  <br>
                  William B. Miller, Jr., M.D.<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="tel:%28602%29%20463-5236" value="+16024635236"
                    target="_blank">602-463-5236</a><br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="m_-3976825554907599061moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                    href="mailto:wbmiller1@cox.net" target="_blank">wbmiller1@cox.net</a><span
                    class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
                    </font></span></div>
                <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> </font></span></blockquote>
              <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> <br>
                  <pre class="m_-3976825554907599061moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
------------------------------<wbr>-------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+34%20976%2071%2035%2026" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3976825554907599061moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3976825554907599061moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/<wbr>pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------- </pre>
  </font></span></div>


______________________________<wbr>_________________

Fis mailing list

<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>

<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-<wbr>bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>


</blockquote></div>
</div>

</div></body></html>