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<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Hi Xueshan and FISers,</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Thanks for your generous comments.</p>
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<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="text-indent:16.5pt">(1) You are probably right that </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"> <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)">"Genetics
is an information science, the first and most fully developed information science." It seems to be more real. </span></span></p>
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<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">(2) </span> In
Sung¡¦s statement, imitating human linguistics of letters, words, sentences, texts, he divided the substrate or the media that carry genetic information into the following categories: </span></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">1 2 3</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red"><br>
A. C, G, T or U ¡÷ genes/mRNA/proteins ¡÷ metabolic pathways ¡÷ functional networks of metabolic pathways</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
color:#212121"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; background: white;"><span style="color:#212121"></span> ^ |<br>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#212121"> |________________________________________________________|<br>
4</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)">. . .</span> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0); font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:14.6667px; text-indent:22px">Our
bewilderment is: Is there a boundary between genetic informatics and genetics?</span><br>
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<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt">This is a million dollar question, as they say. There can be more than
one answers to this fundamental question depending on the perspective of the answerer. My answer, based on the above scheme or network (modified from the original one by adding the backward U-shaped arrow and four numbers, all in black) would be as follows:</span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"><br>
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<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"> (<b>i</b>) The network is the complementary union of two aspects -- the formal
and the material. The study of the formal aspect of the network may be identified as an example of "informatics" and the study of the material aspect as "genetics" (which can be divided into molecular or microscopic genetics and macroscopic or classical genetics). </span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"> (<b>ii</b>) The network has 4 nodes and 4 arrows, each of these 8 items
or any combinations of them can be studied as a specialized discipline, <span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:14.6667px; text-indent:22px">including the study of all of the items simultaneously, as
I attempted to do in my 11/27/2017 post to this list</span>. I regard such a comprehensive (and ambitious) discipline as a part of what I came to refer to as "gnergetics", or the study ("-tics") of information ("gn-") and energy ("erg-") around 1985 [1].
In contrast, the work of Petoukhov is primarily concerned with the mathematical underpinning of the molecular genetic structures which he has identified with tensor products of matrices [2]. <br>
(<b>iii</b>) Based on the above considerations, my answer to the above question would two fold:</span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt">(a) There is no clear boundary in principle between genetic informatics
and genetics.</span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt">(b) It may be convenient to distinguish between
<i>molecular genetics</i> and <i>classical genetics</i>, the former being more closely related to informatics and the latter to genetics. </span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt">All the best.
</span></p>
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<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt">Sung</span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:11pt; color:rgb(33,33,33); text-indent:16.5pt"> </span></p>
<p style="text-indent:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</p>
<p></p>
R<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif">eferences:</span></div>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif"> [1] </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51); font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:16px">Ji, S. (2012). </span><a href="http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Excerpts_Chapters_2_complementarity_08192012.pdf" target="_blank" style="background-image:initial"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif">Complementarity.</span></a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51); font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:16px"> In: </span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51); font-family:Lato,sans-serif; font-size:16px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif">Molecular
Theory of the Living Cell: Concepts, Molecular Mechanisms, and Biomedical Applications.</span></em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51); font-family:Lato,sans-serif; font-size:16px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif"> Springer, New York.
Section 2.3, pp. 24-50. PDF at </span><a href="http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Excerpts_Chapters_2_complementarity_08192012.pdf" class="OWAAutoLink" id="LPlnk513115" previewremoved="true"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif">http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Excerpts_Chapters_2_complementarity_08192012.pdf</span></a></span></div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt"><font color="#333333" face="Lato, sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif"> [2] See Ref. [12] in my 11/27/2017 post.</span><br>
</font><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51); font-family:Lato,sans-serif; font-size:16px"><a href="http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Excerpts_Chapters_2_complementarity_08192012.pdf" class="OWAAutoLink"></a></span><br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Xueshan Yan <yxs@pku.edu.cn><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 6, 2017 10:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FIS Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] Is there a boundary between genetic informatics and genetics?</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0cm; text-indent:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dear FIS Colleagues:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt; text-indent:16.5pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Last week, Sung and I discussed the problem of information in cell language and human language. Pedro gave
his opinion too. I think the Sung¡¦s work is very important to our information science study.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt; text-indent:16.5pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Biology is an informational science, this is the view of Leroy E. Hood of the Nobel
<nobr><a class="in-text-unit" href="http://7769domain.com/Ad/GoIEx2/?token=UCtsZ3V4WVZ6RE05RmxhcGZMOFpraEVaWDQzOUJ4TkwzY0FSQUZtWjMyZHZocEhHakUvakVXeG43RWczeXo1aDlURlg3bFZFR3FHeHBtWm92bkZYT1JpQ2Z4NVhJQ0JodEo5UlJkMUxnNWNjMWs2a21WSTNWak12TlRZSi9Wd25KWG5rMldNUnZQTHJOS0F4OFpWdy9JaTFqVHhveC9aQU1Lc0pHN1RiOU1ZPQ2" target="_blank">prize</a></nobr>
winner of 2002. As to this argument, he didn't give a complete biological argument ¡X only a genomics one. Review the history of those disciplines that claimed to be the member of information science in the past years, although we cannot wholly agree with them,
for example, Bradley Efron ¡X the former president of the American Statistical Association ¡X thought: "Statistics is an information science, the first and most fully developed information science." But I believe, imitating the Efron's statement: "Genetics is
an information science, the first and most fully developed information science." It seems to be more real.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt; text-indent:16.5pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">In Sung¡¦s statement, imitating human linguistics of letters, words, sentences, texts, he divided the substrate
or the media that carry genetic information into the following categories: A. C, G, T or U ¡÷ genes/mRNA/proteins ¡÷ metabolic pathways ¡÷ functional networks of metabolic pathways, as long as we remember those biological experts ¡X the Nobel prize winner in physiology
or medicine in 2013 ¡X whose works are only about the chemical signal (information?) in neurotransmitters, they found that signals from one nerve cell to another must be in the form of small packages of vesicles. In some degree, we are immediately aware of
its great significance of the study about hierarchical structure of the substrate or the media which carry genetic information here. But, the final verdict may be made by the biologists rather than our information scientists, that is to say, the right of speech
may not be in us. Our bewilderment is: Is there a boundary between genetic informatics and genetics? If so, where is it?</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt; text-indent:16.5pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">For us, if we want to make information science a success, the understanding of information transmission theory
in genetics is indispensable. There is no fugitive and cloistered road to the freedom of information science, depression and desolation absolutely is not a positive information to FIS.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt; text-indent:16.5pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt; text-indent:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Best wishes,</span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Xueshan</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.65pt; text-indent:0cm; line-height:12.0pt; layout-grid-mode:char">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Peking University</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
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